most popular US expat schools, do we have this right?

[snapjack543]

Hi everyone,
First time poster here. We are considering relocating from the states to London in the coming year and it's come down to finding a suitable schooling situation for our current 3rd (10 yrs old) and 6th grade (12 years old) daughters (i.e. rising 4th grader, rising 7th grader).

We know there are loads of other factors, but one major consideration for us is where students are likely to matriculate. We are particularly keen on having our children attend university back in the states for several reasons. So far, the top of that list appears to be American School in London where more than half head to the states. There appear to be a few of other popular options that have been suggested for expats: International School of London, Dwight School, and Southbank. Most of these students matriculate to European universities, it appears, given what we've read on their websites.

Firstly, is our understanding of these schools accurate? (if not what are we missing?)

Secondly, are there state schools we should also consider in our short list? We've mostly steered clear of state schools and the entire catchment area discussions thus far but we're open to it if it looks like a realistic option (though it does not given how behind we are on the learning curve and ages for gaining entry to the most competitive state schools).

Thanks in advance for your insights!

I think your point about guidance / college counselors is the most important aspect to consider in your choice of school. It can be the make or break factor.

State schools (known as public schools in the US) tend on the whole not to have the excellent college admissions counselors that public schools in the US have. There are state schools in the UK where none of the staff would even be able to help a student apply to a well-regarded British university, let alone an American one.

Any British school with a track record of sending students (with any set of qualifications) to American schools - and not on sports scholarships - would be worth looking into. When you do your investigations, focus on the caliber of the college counselors.

(Also, though I've used the term college for convenience here, third level education is always referred to as university in the UK).

thank you for the recommendation for goodschools.uk!

The majority of IB schools in UK only offer the diploma in sixth form as an alternative to A levels, not PYP or MYP, opting for traditional gcse in year 11 instead. Some of the American and international schools are the exception, but their fees can be substantial.

We appreciate all the feedback. This has really helped our thought processes and I thought i'd break it down more succinctly:

practical

1. pickup / drop off. We have two older daughters and a rising kindergartender i didn't mention. Having the two eldest attend the same school and follow the same holiday schedule, esp with the option to for the 3rd child (son) to attend when he's ready is a really a huge factor in our day-to-day.
2. holiday schedules--having dc in different schools let alone different academic calendars would be a non-starter.

qualitative factors:

1. a school where a decent number of graduates matriculating to a selective US university is not rare.
2. extracurriculars (sports, music, etc)
3. a school where our DC can find like-minded academically accelerated and focused peers.

UK state schools seem like a great choice, but again, doesn't seem possible given our timing and lack of preparation especially for the eldest (going into grade 7/year 8). Although we could try once we're over for Year 9 I suppose. It does look like private will be the only "real" option here given what you all have mentioned.

Some take-ways:

1. UK free (aka state schools), great option, highly competitive, bad odd or 0 odds of gaining entry especially this coming year.
2. private schools. American School AP vs IB, in no particular order
3. American School
4. international school of london
5. ACS
6. TASIS
7. pay special attention to guidance counselor track records. potentially look into independent guidance counselor with experience navigating students to US colleges.

The discussion has been most helpful. You all obviously know the system well and are a great resource to sanity check our knowledge. Hopefully we'll be on the other side of this discussion this time next year :)

I think you need to add additional considerations.

If you are here for several years, do you really want to put your children in an American bubble? Would they want to do the DofE award?

Do you want to have a boarding option (eg occasional boarding from a few nights to a week or two), in case you have business or travel commitments.

I think your idea of keeping your children in one system or the other is spot on.

GCSEs are sufficient for most US state colleges, despite being awarded at age 16 rather than 18. A-levels and IB are similar to AP courses. A-levels are more concentrated, as they involve just taking three courses, with an option to do an extended project, and vocational choices. The IB is broader.

I used to work at ACS Egham as a teacher. My first impression was that the school community is very transient, with children moving in and out all through the year. My second impression was that the teaching was very didactic - chalk and talk, rather than teaching skills and values.

There are plenty of international schools in the London area. I think you have to pick an area to live in that suits your own commute, and then look into the schools.

Can you give an example of the US colleges your children may be interested in?

Wow thank you for your insights!

Regarding the American bubble, we don't have a sense of how insular the bubble is at schools like ACS or ASL. We've not visited London since our beginning to sort this school situation. Is it normal for school age children to participate in sports (e.g. swimming, orchestra, volleyball) outside of their school? Also, first time hearing about the DofE award, is that not available at the international schools? I figured the "bubble" would give them them an opportunity to be with like-situated peers, but I get your point.

Regarding boarding, I don't think this will be a serious consideration for us. Though boarding appears to be fairly common in the UK, we've not seriously considered this option since it seems so hard to imagine our living away at their age. Our attitudes are open to persuasion.

Appreciate the comment on transient nature at ACS Engham and definitely a downside to international schools generally speaking.

If getting into a good state (aka free) school for both DD were realistic, we would definitely consider it and we may still try later if it makes sense after they're enrolled somewhere the first year.

If we can continue to convince our DC that college is a good idea...we'd hope these ones they would consider: Big 10s in the midwest (e.g. University of Illinois, University of Michigan), NYU, Boston College, University of Chicago, Northwestern University, Georgia Tech, University of California Berkley, and maybe a few long shot Ivys.

You have a 10yr old now in 3rd grade?
Wait, OP said birthday was Dec 2014, so that could be just turned 9yo in 3rd grade?
Still, wow. I was 7yo when I started 3rd grade, and far from the youngest.

That’s very unusual - US 3 rd Grade = UK year 4, so 8/9 year olds.

If there were six year olds in US 3rd Grade, they must have skipped multiple grades. Which is obviously possible, it’s not really worthy of comment that OP’s children haven’t.

Must have had a brain lapse earlier in the thread. Sorry for the confusion. DD (second eldest) turned 9 this month, not 10. Where we are, kids must turn 5 on or before Sept 1 of the academic year to begin kindergarten, typically.

UK private schools are sending increasing numbers of students to universities in the USA. In 2021/22, Eton boys had 39 offers from US universities. In 2023, 10 girls headed across the pond from Wycombe Abbey. These big boarding schools have dedicated US college advisors. They also have parents with deep pockets who can afford the fees at US colleges!

More “normal” private day schools are following as pressure for places at Oxbridge increases. For example, Francis Holland Sloane Square sends several each year.

I have my feet on both sides of the pond and I am actually quite horrified by the preparation required at a relatively young age for US college admissions over there. My 14 year old DCs friends aren’t going for their last and final upper senior year at summer camp as their parents are making them do stuff for admissions prep instead. Likewise, they are also surprised at the higher academic levels provided by the GCSE and A-level syllabus over here. In some subjects A-levels have the same content as first year US college degrees. So AP classes aren’t even at the same level.

The learning style is also very different. You can get 80 something % in an exam and that’s a grade 9 (the highest possible grade). Multiple choice questions are minimal and there is very little ongoing testing. You have to properly understand and retain information and then you’re tested in a single set of exams. There is also an increased focus on application of that knowledge, not just retention of facts.

For this reason many US colleges actually really like students coming from the U.K. education system.

There was a blogger https://abroadpurpose.com/ who was adamant she wanted her kids to stay in the US system when they came to the U.K. but they took the plunge and didn’t look back. Her kids are younger than yours though.

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer here - you have to follow your gut. I just think you might be surprised by what the U.K. system can offer your children to get them where you want them to be.

For all the reasons you’ve mentioned above, American School in London is your best bet. It goes from age 4-18 so all your kids could be in the same school at the same campus. Despite not offering the IB, ASL clearly has the best US college destination results of any other American or international school in the London area with many heading to the Ivy League and top 20 universities each year.

@DibbleDooDah we find the prep for US College Admissions horrifying as well. The grass does not greener on the other side of the pond as far as we've learned. At the end of the day, universities are always looking for convenient ways to rank students one way or another, regardless of the schooling system. I think we all agree here that the best we can hope for is for our DC to excel regardless of the system in which they're placed, hopefully surrounded by like-minded peers. Thank you for the reference to the blog, this is fantastic!!

@Meera1 agreed. It seems like it checks the most boxes. Not thrilled about the cost and it's definitely weighing heavily on our minds, especially with 3 kids.

@snapjack543 At least the vast majority here (even all) look at relevant academic data submitted on each dc. They don’t look at all the extras you’ve paid for! Eg DofE awards and summer camps. Most people think that’s a fairer system and less biased towards who has money snd who doesn’t. Overall it’s not a horrifying system here to get into most of the world ranked unis.

I would consider an IB program just for the possibility that your children don’t want to return to the US.

we are trying to leave the US doors open, but it’s increasingly looking like our eldest might not want to (several years in UK, now in another European country) we still have years yet before any big decisions, but as we haven’t kept them in an expat bubble at all, culturally they are increasingly not very American.

we are also making sure that they have residency in their own right in the EU prior to 18, as in college I had several friends who were raised in the US due to parents jobs but after uni had no right to live and work in the country they grew up in without an employment sponsored visa. I didn’t want this to happen to mine (in reverse).

Just to add to your translation matrix...
"College" is frequently used to describe 16-18 education (A level, IB and equivalent) in the UK.

@snapjack543 A point to consider as well is that the U.K. students heading to the USA for college really aren’t doing the in depth prep from an early age that their peers over there are doing and they are still getting places.

UK private schools are very good at finding what your child is good at and then supporting it. My DD does field hockey and she not only trains 4x a week at school but she is also shown and encouraged to apply for county (state) teams. Things like DofE which include self supported expeditions, volunteering and learning a new skill. Bebras computing challenge, maths olympiads etc . Encouragement to audition for national music and drama groups etc. Lots of state schools do to, but private schools love to share the “glory” of these achievements.

Of the four children I know at US university from the U.K., only one is on a scholarship (tennis). The other three are at Ivy leagues and only started prep in the sixth form at the same time as applying to U.K. universities.

One U.K. school that’s worth a look, even if only to cement your decision that a US international school is the right one for you is Highgate. It is known as an academic school but is coed and goes from 4 years through to 18. 11 went to US university this year. A less academic option is Forest School but they still send kids to the US each year. There are others which other people will invariably be able to recommend.

Also, once your children go to secondary school (at 11 or 6th grade equivalent) then the great majority travel to and from school themselves in London. Single sex education might be a step too far for you, but you’ll see a lot of London schools are single sex. GDST schools are fabulous.

I guess what I’m saying is please just don’t write off a U.K. education without doing some homework and visits first. You might conclude that a US education is wholly right still, but you may be swayed the other way!!!

Please note if you want all kids in the same school, please look at the top London coeds. UK have single sex schools, and they are different. We found boys school to be more transparent on areas of strength and improvements, percentage achieved by cohort vs your child. Whilst majority of girls schools are very vague as in all is fine or at expected level or area of concern. Too vague if you prefer data etc which the US university applications prefer.

Cost of schooling, fees: some schools are expensive but all activities are included, others more reasonable but limited clubs and activities. Some may seem good value but the added costs of lunch etc tends to add up so not much savings.

I had a US colleague who lived in the UK for 2 years while on a work assignment. (He and his family returned to the US after the 2 years, as planned). His 3 children, then of similar ages to yours, attended ACS and found the transition easy from an academic perspective. They chose to reside in Windsor for easy access to the school, as well as London and Heathrow.

Not recent feedback as this was nearly 10 years ago but certainly at the time they were all happy with the school. According to my colleague, the children truly embraced British culture during their 2 years in the UK, so being at an international school doesn't seem to have been too much of a hindrance in that respect. They did a lot of activities outside of school though. Perhaps this type of international school could be a good option for you for at least your first year in the UK while you get a chance to explore potential state alternatives.

The your 9 year old would go into year 5, this is a huge advantage because you could apply to state (free) secondary at the standard time next October assuming you are here then giving your child the best chance of a good localish school, your youngest could also of course go into the state system easily. Your eldest is harder as you can only get a state place based on availability so you might not be offered anything you like. Many change schools for 6th form (aged 16-18) and most better 6th forms will have experienced entry to us universities as it's relatively common, that said your dc will be adults and may choose another pathway. Private schools if you can comfortably afford it obviously are available but only you know if that's a sensible option

If you send your child to an international school
there will be a lot of help to apply to USA university- from the school councellors.
This won’t happen at UK state (non fee paying schools)
You are aware of the cost of out of state tuition? My dc are at an international school and many parents choose to send their children to UK Uni as even with international fees it’s cheaper than out of state USA fees.
Usually the International schools have amazing facilities and trips etc. It’s very much a bubble. but a lovely bubble

My DD went to ACS Cobham. The ACS schools are all quite different. Egham is more European, Cobham definitely American in feel. The population wasn’t transient and she had the same cohort of friends all through from G9, including local Brits, Americans and Canadians with parents on long term work contracts in U.K., Portuguese, Spanish and Russian. She did the IB and did OK, went to a Russell Group uni. Lots of her friends went to uni in the US, and the school is well set up for sending kids there.

The ACS schools are eyewateringly expensive, although they do offer discreet bursaries. The teaching was quite mixed, but most of it was excellent.

Keeping your DC in one system or the other is definitely the way to do it. Just wanted to say if you do choose the UK route, there are some really great state schools out there, you just have to research the area.

I'm an American married to a Brit with 2 DC in the state system. We moved from London to the suburbs (South East) for the schools. We are quite happy with the primary school. It has great wraparound care and offers breakfast club (starts at 7:30am) and an afterschool club which ends at 6pm. The school also offers extracurricular enrichment clubs (which take place after school and on the premises) including martial arts, football, hockey, theatre, lacrosse etc.. We use holiday clubs if we need to, during the times when they break up for school: Easter break, May half term, October half term etc..

The secondary schools near us are great too and we are also in the catchment for grammar schools. The secondary schools' offer plenty of extracurricular clubs as well school trips across countries Europe and more. Some also organise trips to visit UK universities, offer networking events with alumni etc... Our 2 DC are young but we are doing our research on secondary schools now and noting things we need to be mindful of when applying to UK and US universities. It's definitely a learning curve for us. Compared to the UK, prepping for university in the US is definitely more tedious.

Locrating.com is a good site to use so you can get basic info/ratings about the schools in the area you live in. An educational consultant might be helpful for you to help guide you through all the processes as they help navigate the UK and US schooling system and universities. If you do the UK state route, here is a site to compare schools: https://www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables

We are very lucky to live near a good catchment. I was raised in the US and I find the British school system impressive. For example, my daughter is learning multiplication now in year 1 which is the equivalent of kindergarten. She thrived in reception where she learned addition, subtraction etc.. She was already reading when she started reception, which is equivalent to pre school and the school has supported her with that. I went to an Ivy League university and my husband went to Oxbridge so we definitely hold education in a high regard. Good luck with your search!

Here is a list of some areas to consider: Barnet, Hampstead, Finchley, St. Albans, Herne Hill, Dulwich, Chislehurst, Beckenham, Hayes, Orpington, Sutton, Bromley, Petts Wood, Tunbridge Wells, Guilford etc..

If you do choose the UK route, wherever you chose to live you should talk to the Local Authority Admissions team of that area to determine if there are spaces in their year. Many schools are oversubscribed so they might not immediately get a place at the school you want, and they may have to go on the waiting list.

Our school year runs from September, so depending on when her birthday is will depend on the year she enters. If she was 10 before September she would be in year 6 now. And move to secondary school next September. If she was 10 after September, she would be in year 5 now.

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned Sevenoaks - IB, very international intake, significant number to US colleges every year, close to London.