Secondary education (Scotland) - can someone please explain/confirm my knowledge of the structure/qualifications please?

[ThatsAScaryThought]

We’re contemplating a move to Scotland (currently north England/Cumbria) so I’ve been having a look at what our catchment secondary school would be. (And primary but that hasn’t raised any questions).

A lot of things are just normal/school-ey and I’m happy with those. I understand the year groups are different/different cut off points etc and happy (ish) with that.

Happy with S1-S3 being general education and S4-S6 being the senior phase where they do exams.

I understand nationals are like GCSEs and highers/advanced highers are like A Levels.

Now this is the bit where I start getting confused. I’m not clear with the structure of how National 3/4/5 works and highers/advances highers.

Our catchment school website is saying that in S2, for going into S3 they do core English, maths, MFL, PE then have 6 options from National 3/4/5 and then 3 electives from things like tourist Gaelic, set design, basic music theory etc.

I read from the website that they study this combination for 2 years and at the end of S4 sit the National 3/4/5 exams in the core and options subjects. It continues to state that they study for 8 qualifications over S3 and S4.

First set of questions:

• What is the difference between National 3/4/5?
• Who decides the level?
• Do they do all subjects at the same level, or not? I got the impression it was flexible?
• Discounting PE and the electives, the subjects add up to 9 not 8? What do I not understand that is probably common sense/general knowledge?

I went onto look at S5/S6 options. There seems to be a mix of National 3/4/5 and highers. The website states they do 5 subjects in S5 and up to 5 subjects in S6.

Second set of questions:

• Again, who decides the level?
• Can they do a mixture of levels?
• Do they do the same subjects in S5 and S6 but drop some in S6? Although I saw that they could pick up additional highers rather than doing advanced highers?
• I’m getting the impression that it’s flexible levels rather than the strictness of the English system of one level at a time. Yes?

And after I got my head, sort of, around this, I then looked at another school to see if that would help/they would present info differently which might clear things up. However, they do it all slightly differently (choose subjects in S1 for going into S2, choose subjects in S3 and S4 but only do 5 not 8) which confused me even further.

Apologies for all the questions and confusion, just trying to get my head around it.

If you got to the end of this, thank you so much :)

National 3/4/5 are different degrees of difficult. So national 5 would be what used to be A-C at gcse equivalent. The teachers will be discussing with pupils what they will sit, I would imagine.

i suspect that the numbers of subjects in S3 and S4 will include some subjects that are compulsory but not compulsory to do an exam in (e.g. I can’t imagine everyone has to do a National in PE).

In S5 and S6, there is a lot of flexibility in what you study, but pupils talking to teachers would choose level (there may be requirements like grade at national 5).

Highers are the main entry qualification for university in Scotland. They are a one year qualification so not at the same level as A level. Advanced highers are more like A level standard but are somewhat patchy in that not all schools offer all subjects. They can be used for university admission (and tend to be needed if it’s an English university). there are often opportunities to do more vocational courses.

There are currently discussions about reforms to Scottish school education, but unclear how big these will be or to what timescale.

my kids are primary, but work in higher education policy and have to keep an eye on what is happening in schools.

You might be best asking for this to be moved to Scotsnet and saying which area you're looking at.

You'll get local knowledge of particular schools, as I know there's differences in how many Highers, Advanced Highers etc a school offers.

Nat 4 is lower qualification compared to Nat 5. Your child can do a mix depending on how they're doing in each subject. It'll be teacher led, but with input from child and parents.

Highers are the qualifications typically used to get into Uni.

S6 is an opportunity to take subjects to Advanced level or add in a new Higher or even Nat 5 that hadn't been studied before or at that level.

Nat 4s don't have external exams and are marked internally
Nat 5s have exams that get sent to the exam board and are marked externally.

My dcs school chose their Nat5 subjects at the end of S2 and both my kids took 7 Nat5s at S4.

In S5 they sat highers and the results of these can be used for applying to university.

Both my kids sat and passed 5 highers in S5.
Dd took 2 advanced highers and 1 higher in S6
Ds is currently working towards 3 advanced highers and 1 higher in S6

This is all really helpful and things are making a bit more sense now. I think I just needed some real people examples/experiences for it it ‘click’.

So Nat 5 is like higher and Nat 4 like foundation?

Interesting that there is talk of reforms. I thought the CFE has only recently come in which is where nationals came from (rather than standard grades)?

The area we are looking at is Dumfries and Galloway. Not 100% on exact location yet but likely to be somewhere in along the Solway Firth (because I think it’s beautiful).

Standard grades used to be split into foundation, general and credit I think (I did O grades in the olden days!) So Nat 5 would be like the credit level and maybe Nat 4 is closer to the general level.

Generally if your kids cope OK in school they will do 8 nat 5's in 4th year, English, Maths and their 6 choices. Then in 5th year go on to choose 5 highers, sometimes ones they have nat 5s in but sometimes new subjects may become available at higher level. In 6th year they can do more highers or advanced highers. But there is a lot of flexibility with qualifications though if your child struggles or excels, some schools even tie in with the local colleges to allow a bigger range of subjects and qualifications.

Excellent all. I think I’m understanding now and happy with how it all works.

I have in my head, but appreciate there might be slight differences between schools (more of a summary for myself really).

In S2 they choose subjects for S3 and S4. These could be Nat 3/4/5 and is a discussion between school, parents and So have core subjects (English, maths, MFL, PE and Ethics) with definitely do Nat exam in English and maths but probably not the others.
Have 6 options from the others offered by the school and will do Nat exams.
Some schools offer electives to broaden the curriculum which are not examined.
Do 7/8 exams in S4.

Choose 5 subjects for S5 which could be all highers or combination of highers and nationals. Can go to Uni at this point if have the right grades and combinations or can go onto something else relevant.

Can do extra nationals or Highers or even nationals in S6 which can lead to Uni or something else.

Ok, I think I’ve got this, well, the basics of it anyways. Feeling a lot less confused and happier now. :)

The huge advantage over England is that it's very flexible, esp in S5 and S6. My son's school only did 6 N5s (think it may revert back to 7 soon though) and he is in middle of 5 Highers just now. Some of his friends are maybe only doing 3 or 4 Highers and perhaps resitting a N5 English or Maths if they didn't get the grade they wanted. Mine plans to do 1 Higher, 1 or 2 Advanced Highers, Sports Leadership qualification and something like N5 cookery or cakecraft in S6 at the moment!
A lot of kids going on to uni will get an unconditional offer on their S5 results (apart from courses like medicine where you need 3 x Advanced Highers these days) which takes the pressure off a bit in S6!