Have I made a huge mistake?

[Alwaysmakingmistakes]

Hello, first time poster but desperately need help. Have a very academic daughter currently in yr 8 we are out of catchment for grammar school but the odd person has been known to get in. We decided not to test or apply as at the time thoughts were: unlikely she’d get in due to distance so why the pressure of the test, the hour long bus journey if she were to get in, she had a close group of friends locally that she’d be separated from, and we’d be too far from school friends to meet up which would be an increasing issue for her as she got into teens. However fast forward to now, she would have got in as another locally did, she fell out with original friends we thought she’d benefit from staying close to, and while she’s doing well at school I’ve noticed she “dumbs down” when she’s with friends and teachers have noted she doesn’t vocally participate as much as they’d like her to as she doesn’t want to be seen as a “nerd”. I am now and have been for months obsessing over the fact I’ve made the wrong decision - it is literally taking over my life. I think about it all day every day and can’t sleep because of it. I feel sick constantly. I’ve broached the subject very briefly of moving schools - not even sure if this would be possible at this stage but she was appalled at the idea. I just don’t know what to do. I’m aware this sounds ridiculously dramatic but I can’t go on feeling like this. I don’t even know what I want people to say to me. Have I made a massive mistake that’s severely affected her life chances?? And should I look further into switching despite her objections? Help. 🙏

Personally I’d call the Grammar school and see what it’s like to gain entry from let’s say Easter term or summer term of year 8. Although have you done an open day with them?
it’s likely they have a waiting list and she’ll have to do the entrance exam.

Hi there. I'm a few years behind you in the fact that I'm in the exact same position but my DD is currently y5. My reasons for not bothering with grammar are the exact same as yours (uncannily so, I wonder if we're neighbours 🤣) hour on the bus etc. Even reading your regrets doesn't change my mind about it as although if the grammar was closer I'd be definitely going for it, I just don't think there'd be much quality of life for anyone travelling 2 hours a day and potentially missing out on local meet ups with friends. I think you need to look at it as though you made the best decision you could, based on the information you had at the time. Things have changed just not, but they could just as easily turn on their heads once again. All it takes is a new inspiring teacher or a new best friend made and you could be very glad. Your daughter also doesn't want to move schools. I'd try to move on 💐

We all make mistakes with our children, some with life long consequences. For example, i am blaming myself for my son developing asthma. A friend of mine hasn't noticed her daughter developed severe short-signedness until her school reports slipped. None of us have a crystal ball. You made the best decision with the information available to you at the time. I think the best you can do now is stop beating yourself up and really encourage your daughter in all areas of her life not just academic. I am talking about sport, music, languages whatever is taking her fancy. One of my friends earns more money with her A-levels than me with my first class degree from a top university. She is brilliant at networking and is very driven when it comes to money. Good education this days is no guarantee for financial success or happiness. You have done your best, stop beating yourself up

I spent several years doubting our decision to send ds1 to the local comp! We were fortunate, both our dses ended up there and they both thrived, the teaching and pastoral care were excellent. Ds1 ended up at Oxbridge and DS2 at a London University. The school has changed so much in the last 10 years and is now oversubscribed and about twice the cohort size!

It’s such a big decision, it is hard not to have doubts. Do you think your DD could pass the entrance exam? And an hour on a bus is a very long way as well.

Is there any other alternative?

I wouldn't change school against your daughter's wishes. There's so much bullying going on and girls could be particularly nasty. I got bullied at school. My grades suffered massively, it took me years to undo the damage

Is it even possible to get into the grammar school at this stage? Where we are it would be very unlikely to get a place and I think they'd still have a waiting list from people who did do the test at the time.

It's hard not to feel like you've made the wrong choice but you have no idea how the grammar school would have turned out.

Has she made other friends to replace the ones she has fallen out with? I'd be trying to encourage this and discourage the dumbing down.

DD1 goes to grammar school, DD2 doesn't and there are pros and cons to both. The grass is not necessarily greener.

Don’t forget that when they apply for higher education, universities take into account the elevation in grades they get from going to a grammar.
To level the playing field children who go to state comprehensives get contextual offers with lower grade requirements.
This means going to private or grammar schools doesn’t give you the unfair advantage it once did.

Smart kids will succeed wherever they are. The fact that she's not verbally participating at school doesn't mean she won't if she needs to. Just keep reminding her it's much easier to succeed at education the first time round and how fortunate she is to be bright and be able todo anything. She'll be fine

No, you shouldn't try to force your child to switch to a grammar school against her wishes, and in all likely it would just end in disaster if you tried - she'll throw the exam or simply resent the move & be less likely to settle or put in full effort as a result.

Your daughter is doing well in a school that she doesn't want to leave, and nothing you've described suggest she's unhappy. Insecurities about choices we make for our children are something all good parents deal with from time to time, but we need to find a way to process & move past those feelings ourselves without forcing our kids to fit in a certain mold in order to try to manage our own feelings. If you find your thoughts and feelings about this are unmanageable or seem extreme, reach out to someone for help. And perhaps consider whether there are other underlying causes for you to be feeling so anxious or insecure.

DC's make a journey in life and as parents we help them along the way. I've seen 3 children through the education system and beyond.
School is just a means to an end.
My eldest who is very academic will be the first to tell anyone that a GCSE is a GCSE wherever it is studied/taken. Same goes for A Levels.
She taught herself one of her A level subjects because of a timetable clash. We had to sign a disclaimer that if it all went pear shaped it wasn't the school's fault.
The school she attended didn't get her into her chosen university - she did that all by herself.

It sounds as though your daughter is happy and is getting good grades at school. She has friends, although not the original group she started with. She doesn't want to move schools and the journey would be long for her each day. I would leave her where she is. Moving her could do more harm than good and it may be detrimental to your relationship with her.

You mentioned the 'dumbing down' . Asking or answering questions in class can pose social risks to a teen and this is why they are sometimes reluctant to participate or will dumb down. It may well be something she grows out of as she develops and gains confidence within her peer group. If her grades are good I would try not to worry about this too much.

Your daughter is happy and doing well at school. The fact she doesn’t want to speak up in lessons is not affecting her academic ability and is common. If she is bright she will do well wherever she goes, but will she be happy wherever she goes?

My DDs go to the local comp, they don’t always contribute to questions but are bright. Last year a girl who went to the out of area grammar school left and joined their comp. Reasons were travel time, didn’t fit in and a somewhat toxic atmosphere in the all girls grammar school.

it’s so hard as we all want to do the best for our children but please try not to beat yourself up and put the energy into how you can help your daughter get the best out of her current school.

You could consider moving her for sixth form? There is quite a bit of movement both into and out of selective schools at sixth form. I went to a comprehensive school, then switched at sixth form to a selective (ex-grammar) sixth form college. Selective schools aren’t always the be-all and end-all, anyway. Most sixth forms (even the selective ones) only take into account the top 8 gcse grades, so some might argue that doing more than that (say 11 at a selective school, rather than say 9 at a conprehensive) just adds unnecessary pressure.

Is she happy? What do you think she'll get from grammar school?

@Lilacdressinggown "Don’t forget that when they apply for higher education, universities take into account the elevation in grades they get from going to a grammar."

No, they don't. This really isn't true.

Firstly, no, you did not make a mistake.
You made an overall assessment of the situation a couple of year ago and made a very rational choice. (2 hours daily travel is very long imho!)
You couldn't have know how it would feel now and it did not have to be that. You also cannot know how it would feel had she gone to the far-away school.

Your today's assessment should not include whatever happend then.
So, is your dd somewhat happy at the current school? She doesn't want to change school, so there must be a lot of positives too, right?
Do you trust the teachers? Could you ask their advice?

If not a different school, what else could you do to keep her motivation to study? Could you afford a tutor for her? Some other extra-curr, or a holiday camp on her subject of interest, etc.

The decision you all made at the time was made for good reasons. If the other local girl hadn't got a place in the grammar you probably wouldn't be questioning it.

My DD is in Y8 at a grammar, and has a 1h each way commute. Academically it's good, though she doesn't feel massively challenged so I'm not convinced it's a magic bullet. I will acknowledge that it's acceptable to be smart or a bit of a nerd there though, which helps.

However, DD is reluctant to participate verbally at form time because there are some very mean girls in her form and she feels constantly judged.

Grammar schools are full of the top achievers in their primary schools, all trying to stand out, whether it's for social, sporting or academic reasons. This can make for a difficult environment, socially.

Your DD is happy at school. That is a massive win. I wouldn't consider changing anything in your situation.

At least phone grammar, what have you got to lose?

But in the meantime you are going to have to address a couple of issues. Falling out with old friends is not good. Has she made new ones? Email tutor and HoY.

What are your feelings about the school generally is it a good school? Ds1 (year 2 of uni, and ds1 yr 10), their local school is beyond superb. Nice friends, great pastoral care, school pushes gently all children to achieve, Oxbridge or uni or whatever. Both of mine are Uber confident.

Why does she feel like a nerd?

More importantly, why is she not speaking up? her inner confidence? What's her self-esteem like? because irrespective of school or falling out with friends she should be speaking up and being very vocal. Anyway that's a bigger isdue. Self-esteem issue that you really do have to address urgently.

Yes best to forget it. Your daughter is happy at her school so let her stay where she is. The grass definitely isn't always greener.

Ten years ago I made the same decision as you (not to apply for grammar) for similar reasons. I too ended up questioning it. That was for my DD3.

However, it isn't necessarily the end of the road for the grammar school. If DD looks like doing really well in her GCSEs then she could apply to join in sixth form. My DD did. She got mostly grade 9s and one grade 8 in her GCSEs and was offered a place immediately, which she took up. She wanted to go to the grammar school by then and the school she had been at was for some reason not offering the subjects she wanted to continue with to A Level. I've no idea why, as they did have staff who could teach them.

Anyway, off she went to the grammar school sixth form as an external student and it worked well for her. I was also glad that she got to experience both types of school. It was good for her.

A lot of grammars do allow a number of new entrants into their sixth forms. They are still selective in that the GCSE grades must be very good, but it is a potential way in in the future.

If DD is happy now and doesn't want to move then I would leave her. The grammar would probably have a sizeable waiting list and would be likely to test again if a place did become available that they were considering offering to someone.

If you are not in a grammar area then the school your dd attends will be a comprehensive. Think about what that means. There will be bright kids there just like your dd. There's no reason that she can't do well.

Whatever issues you have around having made this decision they are your issues. Please don't inflict them on your dd. Maybe have a little faith in her.

Thanks everyone. I feel a bit better about the situation after reading your responses. @AGoingConcern there’s definitely underlying issues that need addressing and no doubt they are warping my view of the situation.
@CurlewKate I guess in my head she’ll have some sort of edge over others at some stage in life if she’s been to grammar school??
@Springium23 she was having weekly tuition lessons throughout primary which I stopped when she started year 7 while we navigated the new routine/homework schedule of secondary school so maybe it would be a good idea to restart, I know she’d been keen to. She goes to girl guides and goes to indoor rock climbing lessons weekly, but I’ll definitely look at something for over the holidays that might interest her.
@LetItGoToRuin you are right, if the other girl hadn’t got in I’d not have given it another thought. The girls was always vocal about being “the cleverest in the class” she wasn’t. My daughter was always coming home really proud of her self saying I got a higher mark than the cleverest girl in class and I would always say well clearly you are the cleverest girl in the class but she’d never have the confidence to take that on board and whenever the girl would brag to the class about being the cleverest the teacher would say to them the cleverest girl in the class is someone you would never expect. She got higher sats marks than this girl too so maybe I’m just being pathetically childish and wanting to prove a point that my daughter is cleverer than her?!?!
@Oblomov23 we had a rough couple of months over the summer term where I think she was possibly being bullied or it could just have been a nasty fall out depending which angle you look at it from, I spoke to the parents and the school and it seems to have resolved they are all ok with each other now but she’s wary of them. She’s made a few new friends since so hopefully that continues. The school is ok. It’s one of the best comps in the city and I know people move into the area to get in but I find it average I’ve got nothing bad to say about it but I can’t see anything particularly fantastic either. They set them academically for English maths science and MFL other subjects are mixed ability which is where she’s not participating for fear of being branded a nerd. I guess she just wants to fit in. Which is understandable.
@Topseyt123 yes I think this will be the best way forward to leave her where she is and reconsider for 6th form. She’s one of the oldest in the year so she’ll not be far off driving when she starts 6th form which will make travel to whichever 6th form a lot easier.
@Tacotortoise yes these are clearly my issues not hers.
Thanks everyone I really appreciate your input. X

@Alwaysmakingmistakes there is truth in the comment about how some Universities (Oxbridge being two but I stress not all universities have the same application processes) and also some highly competitive courses (medicine/computer science/maths/economics spring to mind) view results from applicants who have attended selective Grammar and Independent schools. It is about contextual results as part (but not all) of the selection process and the competitive data set for the school. And also your home postcode. Firstly, you cannot ‘game’ the system by switching to a state school place for 6th form after attending an independent school - the applicant will be judged as having attended an independent/selective school by the algorithm. The algorithm then weights the applicants results against that year’s cohort at that school. So at a selective Grammar where it is the norm to achieve 8/9 in say 10 subjects, a set of 10 GCSEs with all 8/9’s is not judged contextually to be as high an achievement as achieving 10 GCSES with all 8/9’s in a comprehensive where achieving that result is exceptional. However, your home postcode may come into play in that if the area in which you live (regardless of the school they attend) does not have a high level of students at 18 going on to a Higher Education, your child’s achievement of 10 GCSEs at 8/9’s (even at a selective school) will score slightly more that another pupil attending the same school with the same result who resides in a MC area where the outcome for young people attending university is the norm. My DD is going through this process at the moment.

On the question of whether or not you should move her, my experience has been that my DD has had a long commute to a selective independent school where everyone wants to do well. I also know that unless she is challenged by other able pupils she would take the easy route of sitting back as she is not a competitive child, nor a perfectionist. Being amongst equally able students has undoubtedly been a good thing. Academically she has done very well but undoubtedly the opportunities to meet up spontaneously has been less (which has on occasions been an issue) but I have always known I would be a ‘mum taxi’ if I sent her there, which I was prepared to be. She is not a sporty child so after school clubs were not an issue but orchestra etc was. It does mean your DD may be travelling back late in the dark in the winter terms so only you can decide if that it ok for you.

On the downside, hot-housed/intensive schools do not suit every child ‘s personality and only you can decide if she is emotionally equipped and resilient enough to deal with the relentlessness (and it is relentless) that attending a selective school brings. You do not want to move a happy child only to find they develop an eating disorder/mental health/esteem issues. There is a lot to be said for being top of the class in a regular school than potentially bottom of the pile in a selective one.