Is 11+ worth it for us?

[philmewithluv]

I'm thinking about this as clearly as I can.

My DC is in year 5. We have been going through the books since January. It's going well, I suppose, DC loves learning and achieving, we do lots of reward etc.

We are really lucky in that we are church goers, and the church schools. around here are actually very good. If you compare the progress and even actual results of the top set at these non-selective schools, they are about the same as at the privates and selective states.

I know things can get a little more stressy from here, I am quite an anxious person and don't trust myself not to leak that all over my DC. My Dc is also quite active with sports and music so buckling down will take time away from that. And this Sept we would start walking around and visitings schools. The privates with all their frills will look GREAT (also because they are!) DC will love them, and bang, the stakes suddenly get higher. DC will really want to go, the pressure might sink in then for all of us.

Should we even bother given our options? I don't particularly trust the government's education approach, but states might actually get a boost if Labour get in!

I also have three other children and it would have to be scholarships to put them all through indies!!

Wondering whether we should step off now?

I’m slightly unclear, your 11+ isn’t for state grammars but is the entrance exams for private schools?

Can you afford to put 4 chicken though private secondary school?
Do not assume you will get a scholarship or bursary..
If you can't afford it go state.
I assume by 11 plus you mean private school enterence?

Scholarships aren't worth much in most cases, so realistically if you can't afford it without, you can't afford it. Bursaries would give more usually, but you would need to check eligibility.

Seems like your state options are good, why spend £1000s? Especially if you can afford to supplement with sports/music etc outside school.

I'm a bit confused too.

By non-selective states, do you mean a sec mod (old school term) where the highest-achieving-at-11 children have been creamed off into the state grammar?

Or do you live somewhere where comprehensives and grammars exist side by side (not sure how)?

Or are the entrance exams for private school? Either way, if you need scholarships to put four DC through private you probs cannot afford it (I suspect you mean bursaries as scholarships are not usually worth much in monetary terms). In which case i wouldn't bother looking round the private schools tbh.

If your local non-selective option top set gets results on a par with the grammar school then I would just go there tbh. Unless you think your DD will breeze through the entrance exam?

So your considering grammar (11+) and private? Your post kind of flits between the two.

Around here scholarships only amount to around 5-10% of the annual fee for private. Full bursaries are only given to children from poor backgrounds. Lots of good private schools are also selective so 11+ prep is helpful if they have an entrance exam.

The 11+ is hard for all kids and yes, there is that element of risk if they look around grammar and decide that's where they want to go.

If your child is bright enough and you feel they have a chance (general standard is 85% and over in age 10-11 practise books) and wants to do it then I think you should take the risk.

You do need to make sure they know it's in no way a given, though.

I don't understand your post. You state clearly that private isn't an option, yet you are going to take your child to look around private schools? Obviously, don't do that. You can't afford it

Really really depends on the local authority you are in. Hell of a difference in grammar stakes between Plymouth and Kent!!!

I agree with the above posts, are you talking about private school entrance exams, or state 11+ schools?

I don’t think the private schools are worth going for if you gave to rely on scholarships for subsequent siblings - there’s no guarantees of getting these.

It’s definantly worth doing 11+ exams for state grammar schools. However, it sounds like you gave a good, back-up church option.

We have 4 and turned down a top scholarship to an outstanding prep for our eldest because we didn't want to get on the fees treadmill if we didn't really have to (I entered him on a whim, he didn't know what he was doing and wanted to "go and do more fun quizzes next Saturday too"!!). I figured if he was that bright, he would do well in the excellent state options we have - he's in his second year at Cambridge so I guess it paid off 😉

I'm confused by whether you have grammars as well as comps and indies, but we have had all 4 go to super selective grammars and it has worked for them all.

Both DH and I were privately educated all the way through, and I thought we ought to do the same - but both sets of parents cautioned against doing it unless we had absolutely no choice. I think if you can't do it comfortably and would have to rely on scholarships/bursaries, then it's not a road to start on, especially as Labour may add 20% to the cost ...

Why go & see the private schools? We didn't because we couldn't afford it.

Scholarships in DDs private school only cover 10% of the fees and you have to make up the rest. Uniform is 1K from scratch, buses extra, trips extra. It isn't just the fees that you have to budget for.
Fees go up every year and that's before the VAT rise if Labour get in. DDs school are cutting scholarships and bursaries to almost zero if Labour win the next election in order to mitigate some of the cost to parents who pay full fees.
Honestly in your situation with 4 DC I wouldn't even go to look around private schools.

Are You making a choice between state grammar and state non selective but looking at private as an insurance ? If your child is state grammar material then do not deprive them of that opportunity. In our area the local grammar is so much better than the highly regarded non selective option . I have had children in both .

We're in London zone 4, so selective comps, grammars and privates are all within 30-40 minutes travel, some closer. So 11+ would be for state and private possibilities.

We can't afford to put 4 through private if we were paying 100% without making major life changes - they aren't spaced out enough!

Rationally I think we should just focus on the state options, however it also feels bad to not even look.

Its been helpful to read your responses, thank you!

If you can't afford to put all DC into indies without scholarships then don't start. Scholarships and bursaries are going to get more difficult to get once VAT is introduced and you can't make a plan to expect them. Given how good your state options are I would stick to state.

“We are really lucky in that we are church goers, and the church schools. around here are actually very good. If you compare the progress and even actual results of the top set at these non-selective schools, they are about the same as at the privates and selective states.”

Those schools sound great. Are they close by and mixed as well? A lot of London grammars are still single sex until 16 which I find annoying.
If you have 4DC the above type school sounds perfect as all the children could go to the same school. If you do grammar, then you might feel you need to do the preparation with all 4 which can be very tiring/stressful especially if older kids are doing GCSEs by then. You will have enough with 4 children doing GCSEs/A levels further down the line all in quick succession. A bit of prep/support at home for bright children in Year 5/6 can help with top set comp but it isn’t necessary if they are in a good primary and will get to greater depth by Year 6 anyway. 11 plus is quite narrow. Bright kids reading science books/doing experiments/going to lots of museums/reading widely/playing instruments etc can be more valuable long term than drilling reasoning.

It is tricky - given your situation, I would be very careful about taking your child on a tour to see an all frills private school. Several of my friends did that and their DC then really wanted to go there despite getting into grammar school.

I forgot to add in London, because there are so many options, you are only really choosing a school until GCSEs. For bright DC with excellent GCSEs they can choose again for A level and do grammar school then, if they want to. There is a fair amount of movement at Sixth Form and some kids really thrive with the change/challenge of a new school and it can be great preparation for uni.

I would say stick to grammer schools or other state options. Private school fees go up, extras come up, uniform costs etc. These things add up. I would not view the schools with dc unless you were certain you could send dc (and siblings). And we did not view the private schools until after we had offers, as I felt we would like the schools and did not want dc to love a school when visiting but then not be able to go. But I know this is a hard one as some people need to visit to make the decision to apply or not.

Rationally I think we should just focus on the state options, however it also feels bad to not even look

It doesn’t make any sense if you can’t afford it for 4!

Not sure where you are in London but there are excellent faith schools here so go down that route, far less stress.

Why do you feel bad if you don’t look at them? Is there alot of peer pressure locally to go orivate?

Agree with others @philmewithluv , why does it “feel bad not even to look” at private schools?

You wouldn’t view a £2m house if your budget was £500k, would you? It would be lovely, of course, and you would then have to tell everyone “no we can’t live there”.

I live near Repton but I didn’t take super sporty DS to see it “look what you could have won” except I don’t have £30k a year spare!

If you cannot afford independent education for all of them then do not look , I can’t understand why you would even open that as a possibility for your child . Just concentrate on the state grammars 11+ .

What @clary said - you only go look at the expensive option if it's a realistic possibility. If it's not (and it's not) then ignore it.

It's very normal to have feel overwhelmed by the 11+ pressure especially with your first child. Take a deep breath and do as much as you can. It sounds very cliche but that's all that everybody does. You won't regret whatever the outcome. Another cliche but that's the way you go.

4 kids at private in London is a very tall order. Focus on the 11+ at grammar schools. Think of church schools at your safety net which you're very lucky to have. A grammar school place will be a bonus.

I should add that hiring a tutor is very normal for 11+ and most start in the September of year 5 some year 4!

I would also stick to state options but go quietly without the children to look at both selective and non selective private options. It helps to know what the options are . Not all children cope well in big state secondaries .