Should I ask the school to pick up the pace? What should I hope for?

[MrPickles73]

DC1 attends a non selective independent school. GCSE and A level results are ok but nothing amazing. Our local comprehensives are very poor (15% gain 5GCSEs including maths and english). There are no available grammar schools.

DC1 just started at this non selective independent school in Year 9 post their prep school, which they enjoyed and found academically challenging.

The problem is they are finding Year 9 of the non selective school not academically challenging at all. The complaint is the lessons are too slow as the teacher takes a long time explaining and re-explaining to those who struggle. Even the lessons which are streamed (maths and languages) are slow for DC1. DC1 is I would say top 10% but not a genius. There are other smart kids but they are lazy whilst DC1 is more motivated.

I have been to ask the school and they have told me we need to be patient and the pace will pick up.. DC1s feedback from the teachers is excellent and they are frequently top of the class. But they are frustrated and hence unhappy.

We have looked at other local independent schools but not found anything any better. Full time boarding is not an option due to the cost, travel time, sports commitments etc.

What else can I do? I am wracking my brains.. do I go back to the school? What can I reasonably expect them to do? My feeling is they haven't really tried anything yet other than the existing streaming... DH suggests to continue where we are but I basically tutor DC1 in my spare time but I already work full-time and I wonder what we are getting for our school fees if I am tutoring them myself.

What should my expectations be? What can I hope for? Are our expectations unreasonable? Where are the smart motivated kids (we live in the sticks)?

If the school is non-selective then there will be a wide spectrum of abilities.

My kids went to a non-selective Indy and some kids failed some GCSEs.

You are paying for them not being at the local school where 15% pass maths and English, believe me they would stand out more there.

If your kid is smart and motivated then the standard response is to expand what they are doing - do they learn an instrument, are they part of the music scene at school, do they do a sport or sports, what other stuff dies the school offer that you can take advantage of? You can start D of E in year 9 once she is 14 and that will really help develop her.

If you want to push forward with the academic subjects then you can look at supercurriculars - if she is into languages can you get some simple books in those languages for her to read, if she is into arts then concerts/exhibitions etc in the local city, if she is into maths then look at 3blue1brown on YouTube etc.

There must be a reason you chose this school. Was it based on the prep head's recommendation? Is it really every subject? You are only about 10 weeks in , so there is time for this to change. Are you sure dc is showing engagement and enthusiasm for the subjects in class? There is nothing to stop them reading ahead, around the subjects etc and you looking for extension opportunities.

Octavia64 thankyou for your reply. I appreciate the suggestions re work outside school. How do you prevent them losing their mo-jo in lessons? My concern is they will become disillusioned.

LIZS school reports are all very glowing that DC is doing well and participating. There are other children who have been to the school and done well but given it is non selective the vast majority are average / below average academically. Re school selection we are very rural so its as much which schools you can physically get to as anything else. We have considered weekly boarding but full boarding is too expensive (and many of those are largely non selective anyway).

Re lessons, mostly questions at this point:

If she was academically challenged in year 8, presumably at a linked prep school, was that mostly from the teachers or were there a group of kids that challenged each other?

If there were a group of kids who challenged each other where did they go? (I have a nasty feeling you are going to say boarding, but still...)

In many senior schools year 9 is not a priority. They have kids to get past A-levels and GCSEs; year 9 is often seen as a settling in year. Your daughter may well find that as she chooses her GCSEs and moves into year 10 the pace picks up a bit - if she chooses for example Latin triple science etc etc then she will mostly be in classes with more motivated students.

However, most teenagers have lazy aspects to their personality and some GCSE classes have not very many people in, so she may have to get used to a medium pace.

I'm in an area where there are a lot of selective indies as well as a few non-selectives and I chose to play the long game as I didn't want my kids totally stressed out by doing 13 GCSEs and being put under massive pressure, which the selectives can be like.

Octavia64 thanks that really helps..

The prep school is independent and the non selective senior school is all through 4-18. Ironically most of the other kids from her prep also went to this school but she seems the only bothered by the situation. Some are being v lazy and not doing anything / messing about and alot are too busy socialising / trying to be cool.. The all through kids have gone at a gentler pace as they did not have Common Entrance exams so they are less progressed in most of the core subjects.

At the previous school they were a bright year (but non selective so still quite a range) but the teachers were also pushing them on. She has said the teachers at the new school are good (in the core subjects) its the other pupils that seem to be the slow aspect.

She plans to choose triple science and latin and as you say I suspect that will make life a little easier for the teachers in Year 10. I think we just need to find mechanisms to help keep the wheels on the road for Year 9...

That sounds like typical year 9 behaviour.

If she's been prepped for common entrance then some GCSEs are easy by comparison - I don't think my DD did ANY work in French from year 9 to year 11 and she picked up a very easy grade 9 at gcse. Same for Latin although I think she did some work there.

In your shoes I'd start focusing on the longer game - the step up to a level is substantial, Start getting her to think what she might want to focus on - languages, humanities or stem and start looking for the kind of stuff that looks good on uni applications.

There is often a big jump up when GCSEs kick in.

Maybe we've been spoilt by state school teachers skilled in mixed ability teaching, but good teaching should be accessible across different ability levels. I would be wary of encouraging the idea that it's beneath them. The lessons may not be that interesting but maybe it's just not a great lesson. Of course boring and poorly differentiated lessons exist. But I wouldn't too quickly buy into the idea that it's boring necessarily because it's too easy. This is something that children learn to say because it gives a big ego boost, both to themselves internally and from their parents. And Y9 is a really difficult year developmentally - peak teenager. This will probably squeeze itself out somehow. It may not look like archetype Kevin the Teenager, but it will (should?) still involve some conflict/attitude/moaning even if you think your child is not "that sort" of teen. Also discontentment and disengagement with some subjects is typical in Y9 anyway, as they move towards taking their options.

Rather than talking to school, if they are really keen you could spend time talking with your teen about the subject to inspire them to extend the learning themselves. Alternatively, give light touch sympathy but encourage them to see it as a small part of the day, job done, leaving lots of spare time to do more interesting stuff. Extended learning could involve books or documentaries, debate over the dinner table. There are even online free courses, Khan academy. But personally I would favour the parking it in a small box. Don't feed the drama of how terrible it must be to spend an hour doing something they find easy. Do the equivalent of "if you're bored, tidy your bedroom." They have lots of time ahead to get stuck into GCSE and A Level study, and nothing to stop them starting to self study earlier if they are so minded. But social development is absolutely key at this age and if school is leaving them with plenty of leisure time, good.

Ask if they'd allow her to start some GCSE work in the subjects she plans to continue with? She could take a CGP book in. Perhaps this will shame them into a bit of differentiation...

Octavia64 yes I think we are in a similar spot - not particularly adept at languages but probably less than a year off GCSE french standard.

She has lots of hobbies / interests so plenty happening there.

Mystero I think you could be right - perhaps take the oxygen out of the situation ;-) . I have tried not talking about it too much.. TBH I'm reluctant to spend the evenings doing additional stuff to school work as then its a really long day for both of us. I rather they up the differentiation at school.

Phineyj good plan with the CGP books :-)

She could definitely take her own books in with her.

For languages she could have a book she is reading - French suggestions here but plenty of other suggestions for German etc.

www.frenchtoday.com/blog/how-to-learn-french/easy-books-for-french-learners/

Maths - I'd suggest looking at intermediate maths challenge papers. You can buy books of them here

ukmt.org.uk/intermediate-challenges

To clarify - I'm not suggesting you do these with her, rather that if she has finished the work she asks the teacher can I read my French book /can I do this maths challenge past paper.

Tbh I would direct her to self study sites and challenging fiction. I would also maybe play it down. If you don't have selective schools on your doorstep then she needs to just get on with it. She is not on 1.1. She is in a class with a spectrum of abilities. I personally would just remind her of this.

CE is a very different curriculum to that which those continuing from year 8 will have experienced. In some ways it may be more advanced but also narrow and usually taught to the test. Encouraging independent study skills and covering some of the topics dc will have missed out (usually the rough curriculum for each year by subject is outlined on the website) would be a good use of time.

The constant need to have children stimulated and pushed is unhealthy. So they are bored, so what, many parts of life are exactly that, part of growing up is learning and accepting boredom.

Snow plough parenting today means depressed adults of the future.

Thanks LIZS I'll take a look. I have done a comparison in the past of CE and national curriculum and they seemed very similar only in languages Level 2 goes well beyond NC.

ampletime I agree with this to some extent but being bored / frustrated for 6 hours a day is also not fostering a love of learning or any enthusiasm to a) go to school or b) strive to continue in education. So I'm not sure boredom is a goal.

I think it's really unfair to expect a bright child to stretch themselves in their own time whilst being bored in lessons. Why can't school provide that stretch and challenge for her?

My dd is similar (although her school is selective) and she often found work boring and repetitive. Fortunately school was onto her! All lessons have class work and extension work anyway and then they added dd-specific extension work on top. It looked different in every lesson. Maths for example she had an extension textbook and once she'd finished the class extension work she'd work from the relevant section of her extension textbook. For languages it was language nut work or whatever website they used.

You should expect this from your school and I'd be going in to have a general discussion with whichever assistant head is in charge of academics.

My dd is now in year 10 and is finding things a bit better but she does still have her specific extra extension work in most subjects. This work doesn't move her ahead of her peers in terms of the curriculum but gives her greater depth (and something to do whilst the others do the classwork or go over something again!).

It makes me a bit depressed to see so many people suggesting that a child should not be taught to their ability - especially in a school you're paying for!

It was pretty much the minimum I expected in a comprehensive.

Ask for extension and challenge work to be provided, surely, as @QueenMabby says. DD and others had a special book to work through in maths when finished with class work.

Though to be fair, my dd has moved from a state comp to a not selective indie in year 10 (certainly not for the academics) and finds them less willing to stretch and differentiate than the state school was. Fortunately she's got so much else to take in and do - particularly in music - that I'm not really worried that she's not getting too much challenge right now and their results are fine.

They also seem a bit baffled that she reads books - but that's another story.

Honestly this sounds a bit crap of your school! My DD is at a state school which sounds similar to your local state option, just for reference - 18% achieved the Ebacc at Grade 5 or above, which I think is the measure you’re referring to in your OP - & once they were streamed for all subjects in Y9 she’s been flying academically as the top sets are made up of intelligent driven kids who are curious to learn.

My experience as an independent school teacher was that the more able students didn't always want to be stretched or challenged! It does depend on the culture of the school.

This does occur in state schools with sixth form who are bright but lazy too. However, some of my GCSE students hanker for harder stuff to do. As they don't want to stick out socially, I use a lot of worksheets that incorporate extra challenge tasks.

Nothing to stop parents doing this at home. It's likely to way too much pressure for OP's child and for what reason?

OP says, "DC1s feedback from the teachers is excellent and they are frequently top of the class." this makes me think of the parent who frequently calls the school requesting to know where their child is on the 'top of the class' list. No teacher I know would ever use this language anyway.

OP please spend time nurturing your DC's interests and passions, share in that and as a, pp poster said work to guide your child toward the area of their interest and skill. There is no point having A+ in Maths when you want to be a concert pianist, an artist or something different. Sounds like OP could take the pressure off a little and maybe build the wider parts of life interests.

Apart from the OP has said herself she's very busy with full time work (and paying fees for this lacklustre educational experience!)

I was very bored at school myself a lot of the time especially in what is now known as KS1 and KS3. It's not great. I'd have loved to be allowed to take an extension book in.

It's not a particularly comfortable situation as a teacher to have a child or children in the class who grasp concepts much faster than others, but letting them be routinely bored isn't the answer.

Having similar in Y8 non selective Indie. Met with Head of Academics who lazily lay back in his chair until he heard he was getting top scores in his subject, then suddenly declared "Oh so she is academic!". He can't seem to grasp that ds is dyslexic and also high ability though, so when I said "an issue is that all of your homework is on computer, so if he miss-spells something it marks it incorrect, which can be frustrating and break confidence when they do know the subject matter" he said as a response "this makes sure children check their work" . It's been incredibly frustrating. Left the meeting with him saying he has emailed all teachers for "stretch" - 3 weeks ago and ds has had absolutely nothing extra in any lessons. He is already doing the maths extra and finishing early in every lesson. Ds is worried he is falling behind peers because they've found themselves going over everything they did in (state) primary.

We have decided to leave and are looking to schools that get slightly higher GCSE grades. There are several non-selectives that are more academic, so we will vote with our feet.

PTSDBarbiegirl we have a report from the school for this term showing her results and average in the class and she knows when she got the top mark (and some teachers comment on - wow well done you got the top mark). So no mystery there.
She has tried musical instruments and is not that fussed. She is keen on sports and a county player and plays about 4 sports so has more hobbies and teams than she can shake a stick at but other than sleeping during lessons I can't see how this will help her?

QueenMabby and others some differentiation is what I am hoping for. We have asked once but no noticeable change so I will go in and ask again.

TBH I don't think its fair on any child to sit around for days, weeks, bored because the lesson is too fast / slow. Its not ok to engage children just because they are quicker than others. Surely all children are equal and all deserve an education?

IfAIwasfedMN I have to say our experience is similar. It seems they put her in random sets when she arrived (as they claimed they had nothing to go on despite having had entrance exams and a report from the previous school including test scores). Other kids were also in random sets - in some cases too fast and in ours too slow. I have been in to ask for more stretch and there has been no apparent change.
We have looked at alternative schools but so far nothing looks worth moving for so I am thinking I may need to go back to them and ask again..

This. Honestly, don’t make such a big thing of it. Let her be bored, it’s an important life skill. Exams and results don’t matter once you get to the next stage, she needs to be enjoying teen and school life

My son became so bored and frustrated in secondary school he started suffering with anxiety. It became a huge problem.
He is now HE, self taught and it's made a massive difference. His love of learning has returned, he sailed through his GCSES, now studying A levels completely independently, and successfully passed the ones he took in summer. Final ones next year. Been offered a place at uni.
Had he stayed in school he would have barely scrapped through, if at all.
Lack of pace and challenge can present enormous issues with some students.