Grammar Stream in state comp

[alizee21g]

My daughter started y7 in state comp. She's my first child in secondary education so bear with me; I am an immigrant too so haven't been through the system myself (been to uni in England). Principal of the school is very keen to expand academic aspect of education and is passionate about making sure local kids have the same opportunities as those from the cities and more affluent areas (we live in quite deprived town). As a part of his longterm strategy school is introducing "grammar stream" for top 60 "Higher ability" students. My daughter was invited to join. She'd be with her usual group during the day and would be staying for an extra hour 3 times a week. We have a meeting about it on Tuesday. Email advised us she'd have dedicated tutor group, Latin lessons, additional music lesson (school is part of MISST program so she's learning to play violin), additional trips and residential including visit to York/Cambridge University. I never heard about grammar stream within comp schools and was wondering if any of you have and could share their experience? None of the secondaries in our town offer this.
I have my own worries regarding extra workload as my daughter already has some out of school activities (as she's bilingual she attends private language school on Saturday, she does swimming once a week and taekwondo twice a week). That being said I am confident she could cope academically, she's bright but not a genius (top sets for almost everything) and she's always done really well at school with minimum effort. If there was grammar school closer to us we'd definitely have considered it for her when we were choosing schools. Another problem is transport, staying an extra hour means she'd miss school bus; it's approximately 45 mins walk (which would be almost in the dark at this time of the year) through some dodgy areas. I don't drive and I am picking up the other child and work till 5 on some days. My partner works full time too; he could possibly pick her up if extra lessons land on certain days when he finishes at 4 and 4:30 if she waited in the library for a bit (it's open until 5:30 I believe). As it stands we feel she should try and she could always pull out later if she finds it too much; she's keen if transport issue could be resolved. I'd be grateful for any input from fellow mumsnetters.

sounds like a reasonable idea although … I’m surprised they can afford teachers for an extra 3 hours per week. I wonder where they will source these Latin teachers and why they have picked on Latin as an area of focus?

Is there someone else living local to you in the grammar stream (or in year 8’s equivalent stream) with whom you could lift share?

I'd be underwhelmed by the Latin offer. 🥱 If it was computer science, or extra maths, that would be different. But, unfortunately, the country has a glut of Classics teachers and a chronic shortage of STEM teachers.

I think you need to ask about the transport issue at the meeting. It would be terrible if this option were only available to those who could manage that. DD's school ran a "late bus" twice a week, to provide transport for those attending extra lessons after school, clubs or detentions. It sounds as if the head is keen to provide the opportunities, and there must be some funding for this project coming from somewhere, so perhaps he would look at that possibility.

Latin is not necessarily such a bad thing to provide the abler pupils with a bit of stretch. DD and friends did Latin out of school and really enjoyed it - they're all now doing STEM A-levels. It can be useful support for modern languages, and has some use when learning terminology in subjects like biology.

Thank you everyone for your input. Yes Latin surprised me too but in my home country some secondaries known for churning out doctors and lawyers offered Latin lessons. Email said it's to teach them about classical world and help them understand their own language. It wouldn't be just Latin though, there would be extra maths and music. My daughter was initially excited about violin but as she's left handed and she's struggling a bit novelty has already wore off!
I will definitely be asking in the meeting about transport, school bus is always packed so there will be more families affected by this. It's one of the reasons my daughter hasn't signed up to any after school clubs. I am currently trying to find out which of her friends might be joining grammar stream too.

Graveney in Wandsworth has a grammar stream which is well regarded.

I would be inclined to give it a go if possible with the transport etc.

I would give it a go, why not. And she could wait in the library on the days she has later lessons when her dad can pick her up. This would be a great time to do her homework. It sounds achievable. Many in secondary do not get home until 5pm or later because of other activities (dd just started year 7 and she often has extra activities, fixtures etc and so do her friends). It amazes me tbh.

Our local state comp has a grammar stream. The school is essentially three schools within a school and one of them is the Grammar one. I think allocation to it is based on year 6 SATS. I don't have experience of it as my DS is in year 6.niw but I do know it's well established and pretty well regarded. Not sure if it causes any issues or bullying in the school at all. The three 'schools' have different colour ties and different crests on blazers so it's obvious which school you're in.

That's interesting, none of the schools in our town have grammar stream option but it's good to know this system is working well elsewhere. We will definitely give it a go. My daughter can be a bit lazy, she's bright and competitive but as she can be top of the class with minimum effort she's not motivated to do more. It could be a good thing for her to be a bit more challenged.

Yes, my dd was like this and we sent her to an academic private school. She is now being stretched, plus has more sports. She is loving it.

I live in SE London in a borough without Grammar schools but we border counties that do have them so a lot of children do go there. I believe the state comp which has the grammar stream started it to try and keep the bright children local instead of losing them to the neighbouring areas.

Sounds like a good idea if she is up for it. Even if new in the school it’s a
well established idea

I would be asking the head about the transport though- seems a
serious oversight if it’s harder just because you are in the grammar stream. Our local very large high school actually runs two lots of the main school buses- one at finish time and another after the clubs have finished.

Lots of state Comprehensives are streamed so that the top stream are essentially those who would be in a Grammar school in a grammar area.

An extra hour 3 times a week is a lot. I would ask if it is possible to opt out of any of the after school sessions.

It sounds odd. Why would music lessons be restricted to those in top academic streams if overall enrichment is the aim? There are young people with a talent and hunger for music who are in middle / lower ability academic sets and come from disadvantaged backgrounds. My DC’s school (non posh S London) had a fantastic music offer and individual tuition took place at lunch times, with the various ensembles meeting after school, open to all academic abilities.

However, 4.30 isn’t that late to finish. Is there a safe cycling route?

Everyone has music lessons, they have all been given an instrument to take home but in Grammar Stream they will have additional lessons. This year half y7 were given violin and the other half clarinet. Last year it was trumpets and another one, I can't remember which. After school music clubs are available to everyone on different days. I will find out more on Tuesday.

Graveney has 70 places in year 7 admitted from those who score the highest in the banding test that all Wandsworth students take and which is open to people who live in other boroughs, but it doesn’t call it a ‘grammar’ stream, or extend the school day for those students (except for clubs they choose to join).

Other schools have setting and streaming to teach high ability students at their pace and be able to offer extension and enrichment.

Many comps have ‘scholarship’ or places based on specific aptitude, music, languages etc.

Different versions of challenging bright / talented students so the overall principle isn’t unusual within the comprehensive system at all.

Is this sort of like putting kids into sets from Year 7 then adding extra curricular activities on top? If yes I think most schools already split the classes into sets and as a parent you could add in extra curricular yourself.

It sounds great and like the old gifted and talented provision. I think it's brilliant that the school are recognising extra need at both ends of the spectrum and challenging the able kids.

They already do "setting" and optional after school enrichment. Grammar stream is meant to be on top of that, I will find out more on Tuesday. There will be additional perks like residentials and visits to top universities for grammar stream children. I just hope we can make it work!

I thought I'd post an update for all of you who kindly commented. I didn't make it to the meeting as my youngest caught a bug. My friend took my daughter though. Regarding transport they're planning on using minibus drop off service so that's huge relief. There will be formal application and selection process; children need to submit letter of intent and then sit the interview. On a positive note my DD1's competitive nature kicked in, she's excited and already started planning her application🙂

Like a previous poster I live in an area where some schools have a grammar stream as they border areas that do have grammars. It helps some families save face if their child doesn’t make the grammar school, they can say they are going to a school with a grammar stream, but can also genuinely give them a route that suits them. Some have fairly clear lines in what it means, one comp nearby will put students in their grammar stream in for 9 GCSEs and separate science is an option for that group only, those not in grammar stream do 8 which is fine but can be limiting (the grammar school proper does 10 as standard)

I am a bit worried about the fact this is out of hours. None of the grammar streams I know do this, it is accepted they are more capable so will work at a faster pace or cope with the extra classes without the extra timetabling. Has the school said it is free? DD’s school used to charge for Latin and Mandarin calling them ‘Twilight’ classes, and they were allowed to charge as it was outside normal hours.