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Secondary education

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Original poster

When to start verbal/non verbal for 11+

27 replies

SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 10:32

Just curious on thoughts on when people start to prep for verbal and non verbal for 11+(for independent schools)? I know prep schools do it at school, but if a dc is from state school, when should they start verbal and non verbal prep? Non verbal, I feel is least important as it is only on one exam (that we might not even go for...still deciding). We have been focusing on math and English for now (dc is year 5).

OP posts:
Beamur · 31/10/2023 10:34

My DD went to a decent tutor, they only took yr5 pupils. I know some people start from yr4 but that's their choice.

Alargeoneplease89 · 31/10/2023 11:43

I started prepping mine in Yr 4.

puffyisgood · 31/10/2023 11:48

It's not really possible to answer this in general terms, e.g. something like an intensive paid for 1-week course is very different to a parent occasionally, when time allows, opening a practice book and picking out a few questions.

Assuming we're talking about something that's reasonably serious but not super-intensive, say about 60-90 minutes in an average week, I would say about 12 months before the test. Certainly not loads earlier than that.

ThanksItHasPockets · 31/10/2023 12:16

Really depends where you are in the country but around here it is on the curriculum from the beginning of year 4 in prep schools. Friends who have hired tutors from the beginning of year 5 have been warned that they are starting late.

Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 12:17

puffyisgood · 31/10/2023 11:48

It's not really possible to answer this in general terms, e.g. something like an intensive paid for 1-week course is very different to a parent occasionally, when time allows, opening a practice book and picking out a few questions.

Assuming we're talking about something that's reasonably serious but not super-intensive, say about 60-90 minutes in an average week, I would say about 12 months before the test. Certainly not loads earlier than that.

Yes, true. I am not sure what is best. Cram intensive for a week close to the exam or slowly here and there. ATM I just want to focus on slowly doing English and Math prep.

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 14:41

ThanksItHasPockets · 31/10/2023 12:16

Really depends where you are in the country but around here it is on the curriculum from the beginning of year 4 in prep schools. Friends who have hired tutors from the beginning of year 5 have been warned that they are starting late.

Yikes. I guess I should get started...even if it is just 10-15 minutes a week! And then I will ramp it up later.

OP posts:
PreplexJ · 31/10/2023 14:57

Atom learning give you some basic level VR/NVR? NVR can cram as it is just mostly techniques. For VR is a good exercise for vacab anyway.

m00rfarm · 31/10/2023 14:58

We had 8 weeks of a private tutor once a week, practice at home, then straight into the exam. It was horrific, but very short and he got into the school.

roses2 · 31/10/2023 17:15

Beamur · 31/10/2023 10:34

My DD went to a decent tutor, they only took yr5 pupils. I know some people start from yr4 but that's their choice.

I spoke to one tutoring company who would only take kids who started tutoring in Year 4.

Really depends on how competitive the school is. If it is a super selective London school eg Highgate, City etc then I would start Year 2 which is when you can start practising the 7+ papers with them.

if it is a less competitive school eg semi selective not purely based on academics then start of Year 5 seems about right.

Worriedmum86 · 31/10/2023 19:49

Tbh I'd start now.... We found a really good book which explained how to work out each vr question and went through 1-3 a week depending on how quick he picked them up or some types are linked. Then we did some practice question books/past papers once he had worked out how to solve the questions.

DiscoBeat · 31/10/2023 19:50

Our two started classes toward the end of Y4

Worriedmum86 · 31/10/2023 19:52

This is the vr workbook we used, don't know if they do a NVR one too.
It goes through step by step how to answer the different types of questions.

When to start verbal/non verbal for 11+
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 22:17

PreplexJ · 31/10/2023 14:57

Atom learning give you some basic level VR/NVR? NVR can cram as it is just mostly techniques. For VR is a good exercise for vacab anyway.

Yes, we use Atom. I think I will get him to start a little VR once a week and then add NVR in a few months.

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 22:18

m00rfarm · 31/10/2023 14:58

We had 8 weeks of a private tutor once a week, practice at home, then straight into the exam. It was horrific, but very short and he got into the school.

Glad it went well!

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 22:27

roses2 · 31/10/2023 17:15

I spoke to one tutoring company who would only take kids who started tutoring in Year 4.

Really depends on how competitive the school is. If it is a super selective London school eg Highgate, City etc then I would start Year 2 which is when you can start practising the 7+ papers with them.

if it is a less competitive school eg semi selective not purely based on academics then start of Year 5 seems about right.

Show quote history

Yikes, I think starting in year 2 is way too early. But I do know of people doing that. In any case, too late now as ds is Year 5 now lol.

The schools are very competitive in our area (SW London)....so I guess I better get cracking.

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 31/10/2023 22:28

Worriedmum86 · 31/10/2023 19:52

This is the vr workbook we used, don't know if they do a NVR one too.
It goes through step by step how to answer the different types of questions.

Thanks!

OP posts:
m00rfarm · 01/11/2023 07:23

It’s great for their normal schoolwork so I would have started earlier if I’d known.

roses2 · 01/11/2023 08:19

The schools are very competitive in our area (SW London)....so I guess I better get cracking.

In which case I'd recommend spending one day a week going through a paper mock paper and answers together alongside a daily Atom learning journey including the mini test of each section (30 minutes per day).

People don't admit how competitive it is or how much they tutor as they want to give a certain appearance but I swear it's like some kind of parallel universe I have come across where you child spends a whole day at school then comes home and does more work well above the UK curriculum for their age.

puffyisgood · 01/11/2023 11:25

This sounds a bit daft but imo a lot depends on a family's plans for the summer holidays in-between yrs 5 and 6. If those six weeks are going to be mostly spent at home with a parent around that's imo a really good amount of time to, for a child who's not done much before, add a solid 10, maybe even 10-20 points to the VR/NVR scores they'd get without prep. If those six weeks are going to be a blur of travel, visits to family, camps and clubs etc I think you've got to plan on getting nothing out of them and therefore starting to practice a good bit earlier.

wishiwasidisneyland · 01/11/2023 12:27

None of the private tutors around me tutor for NVR/VR- they just concentrate on maths and English. Very easy to do NVR/ VR yourself. Just buy lots of workbooks and do little and often.
It's a matter of spotting the question types. DD wasn't great at English for 11 plus but found VR easy. NVR was trickier but then got the hang of it. DS didn't do NVR at didn't need it for schools we applied to.

Dido2010 · 01/11/2023 13:29

Hi @SamPoodle123 ! I have sent you a Private Message.

Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 01/11/2023 13:43

roses2 · 01/11/2023 08:19

The schools are very competitive in our area (SW London)....so I guess I better get cracking.

In which case I'd recommend spending one day a week going through a paper mock paper and answers together alongside a daily Atom learning journey including the mini test of each section (30 minutes per day).

People don't admit how competitive it is or how much they tutor as they want to give a certain appearance but I swear it's like some kind of parallel universe I have come across where you child spends a whole day at school then comes home and does more work well above the UK curriculum for their age.

Edited

Thanks for the tip, but do you mean that much time spent daily for just for verbal reasoning?! As I do not think my ds would be willing to do that on top of his normal hw. But I will definitely get him started with a little verbal prep and then ramp it up later.

I get what you are saying though and the boy schools are ultra competitive in our area. I have an older dd who just did the 11+ and she started prep end of year 5 (as we decided last minute to do it) and it was fine, but I see how competitive it is. I do get nervous that we are not prepping my ds enough. I guess I keep telling myself I have plenty of time since we started late w dd.

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 01/11/2023 13:48

puffyisgood · 01/11/2023 11:25

This sounds a bit daft but imo a lot depends on a family's plans for the summer holidays in-between yrs 5 and 6. If those six weeks are going to be mostly spent at home with a parent around that's imo a really good amount of time to, for a child who's not done much before, add a solid 10, maybe even 10-20 points to the VR/NVR scores they'd get without prep. If those six weeks are going to be a blur of travel, visits to family, camps and clubs etc I think you've got to plan on getting nothing out of them and therefore starting to practice a good bit earlier.

Yes, this is true. Last summer my dd had 3 weeks away and I was furious at my dh bc he did not bother getting to do any prep at all. I gave up after the first week of me messaging/calling trying to get a hold of him to get her to prep. She managed to do Atom like once during her time away....but at least it was only for 3 weeks and then when she returned I was able to get her to prep again. This summer I will be there as well so my ds will not be as lucky to have 3 weeks off HAHA. But I will probably let him have one week off, one week on, one week off while on holiday. Or something like that so he feels he got a break.

OP posts:
Original poster
SamPoodle123 · 01/11/2023 13:55

wishiwasidisneyland · 01/11/2023 12:27

None of the private tutors around me tutor for NVR/VR- they just concentrate on maths and English. Very easy to do NVR/ VR yourself. Just buy lots of workbooks and do little and often.
It's a matter of spotting the question types. DD wasn't great at English for 11 plus but found VR easy. NVR was trickier but then got the hang of it. DS didn't do NVR at didn't need it for schools we applied to.

Yes, we have just started w a tutor and she just does English/Math. We have Atom and a workbook for each....so now I will just have to get started....will save it for the weekend.

OP posts:
icewoman · 01/11/2023 13:58

we started practice towards the end of year 5, and continued most days for the summer holiday before the test