St Michaels Girls (Finchley) v.s. Newstead Wood (Orpington) Or Latymer Secondary in Edmonton

[lovestravel]

Hi all, i would very much appreciate your thoughts and guidance on choosing the right school for my daughter. She has a high rank at St. Michael's Girls Catholic Grammar school in Finchley, a 436 rank at Latymer coed school in Edmonton and a descent score at Newstead Woods Girls Grammar school in Orpington (Bromley). We will need to move closer to the school, are willing to do that but would be helpful if you have gone through a similar decision process and made a choice. Thank you.

There won't be many parents who can directly compare them as they're on opposite sides of London. I know the north London ones through friends and family but I don't know anything about Newstead Wood

Firstly, how likely are you to get into each school with the ranking you've been given? There no point uprooting the family if you then don't get offered a place.

St Michael's (single sex girls Catholic, relatively small) is quite a different environment to Latymer (large, co-ed non denominational). What does your gut say about each one and how do you think your daughter will fit into that environment?

Which is more convenient for travel? Does either school have anything special about it that you particularly like (eg choice of languages or sports etc).

How will moving to a new area (if you decide to do that) affect your family life? Positively or negatively?

I would think that should be high enough to get into Latymer but maybe not straight away.

You need to move by start of January if you're out of catchment though.

I have a child at Latymer. It's a great school and they're happy there, not too pushy, quite diverse in terms of religion and ethnicity, and of course get good results - as should all the schools on your list as they've pre-selected. Disadvantages would be having a friendship group spread across north and east London, and a long commute, although she quite enjoys the social aspect. Worth noting Latymer is reasonably boy- heavy, roughly 2 thirds to a third. I'm not sure whether this has much impact in subjects etc as my DD is more arts inclined than Stem.

There's no way I'd send a child of mine to school in Edmonton if I had another choice.

Thank you so much for those questions. Agree,the environments will be different. Single sex, faith school (relatively small) - St Michael's v.s co-education school- Latymer. Newstead Wood is a girls school too but in Orpington. I would like my child to preferably be at walking distance. Though many children travel at secondary, I think not travelling a lot if one has a choice is better. Maybe moving to Finchley or neighbouring area (for St Michael's) and having her walk will be a better long term decision. It will be a big change as we move from South East bit eventually a decision that works for the full family as later start times and less stress involved with child travelling.

I'm not sure why you'd get your child to travel to all of these different areas to sit tests if you didn't know about the schools. Did you go to any open days? what does your child think about it?

Thank you, this is very helpful. Just learning about differences between single sex and coed but helps to know that it's a diverse environment in Latymer which is great. Yes you are right. We might get on waitlist at Latymer. We need to be prepared that it's a risk, she might not get and would need to move before January which means a disruption to our lives and hers at year 6. I am not sure if its worth all that given St Michael's has good results and we can wait until August next year to move which gives us more time. In addition we can choose an area ( Finchley or neighbouring area) that will mean walking distance or a short bus ride away. Less stress! Do you have friends or parents who can give a view on St Michael's? My daughter is very sporty but also is reasonably academic and loves reading. Is structured, independent, follows rules but loves playing a sport to ensure her day is fun & active too. Will St Michael's suit her? Are we making the right decision?

I get what you are saying. The school itself is good though with happy children and good results.

We are not in the catchment of any specific grammar so had to try and look at options. We are also flexible and can move so wanted to see how she does at different test. It wasn't an issue doing the test as her current school is supportive and many in her class took the test so they had company. It didn't feel like she was the only one doing it. To be honest open days are good but it's only few hours. I didn't go to the Latymer open day. Liked St. Michael's. The headmaster was not dynamic but the children and teachers took pride in their school and seemed happy. They do stress that due to faith and their values, it might not be a school for all which is fair. I like their honesty. Newstead Wood is good but involves us moving too or deal with an hour long commute.

I went to st Michael's but over 20 years ago. There was a bit of sport but not much as girls are more academic. I don't think you could do PE gcse. There aren't that many sport facilities unless they go to FCH or something (used to share a sixth form, not sure if that's still the case).
RE is a big deal. It's not just RE lessons. Our sex ed was minimal and we learnt that condoms are sinful and the rhythm method is how you might avoid pregnancy, obviously only within marriage. Also 'pros and cons' on major issues like abortion where you learn to be pro life. If that matters to you, I would definitely ask more about it.
Also I would ask about pastoral care.
Academically it was very good and overall I had a good experience. You're surrounded by smart motivated people which pushes you to do your best and not mess around.

St Michael’s is a very stressful environment with poor pastoral care. I have had 2 nieces attend there recently. Of course it gets good results as it’s a grammar school. There is a high number of girls with eating disorders and self-harm. My DS has just finished at Latymer, we are a bus ride away as are most who attend there. He enjoyed his time there got fab results still felt pressure though but expect all grammars you feel some pressure. He didn’t need pastoral support really but I understand the provision there is good

Latymer!!!! No brainer. It's a great school (know many Latymer kids and parents) and it's a nice school atmosphere. The other two schools I have heard horror stories about girls with eating disorders and a super pushy environment .

Well it explains why it's practically impossible to get into the grammar local to us (that we pay for with our council tax)... people from way out of catchment are spending £££ and time tutoring their kids to within an inch of their lives, pushing up the scores so high so that it's basically an arms race as to who tutors their kids the most.

Thank you for sharing your experience of the school. Also religious studies. I appreciate the teaching though did they create an open environment to discuss and debate topics? Especially as you progress through the years? Hope you enjoyed the overall environment and made good friends.

I can appreciate it is frustrating though it is a reality and everyone just wants to do their best.

Thank you. I recently spoke to a parent and they said they really supported the transition to secondary very well. Thanks for sharing your experience with your nieces. I do feel nervous that the eating disorder can be an issue and some girls being impacted by it though think it's something true of all school children/ teenagers and more with girls. I make a conscious effort to talk about healthy food, being active and that we are all different.

@GloomySkies not a particularly helpful comment. Plenty of children go to Latymer from all over London and don't experience any issues.

@lovestravel I have no experience of St Michaels but DD1 has friends from East Finchley, Muswell Hill, Enfield so would recommend looking at those areas. I think if your DD is 436 at the moment, she should move up to mid 200s once the out of catchment children are removed so should get a place, but maybe not in the first pass in March. My DD was around 530 initially and got a place in August before Y7 to give an idea.

It sounds as if you haven't seen the schools? St Michael's and Latymer are extremely different on numerous levels.
E.g Latymer has lots of outside space, St Michael's has very, very little.

Thank you for sharing the ranking. We are not in the catchment and rank 436. Though the email says there might be several at that rank. We would also need to move into the catchment by 6 Jan. Yes I have friends with children at Latymer who are happy. Parent only called out that during the winter when it gets dark it's not a great area to have a child on their own walking towards the bus stop etc but I think that they are in big groups so should be ok. Thanks for sharing about East Finchley etc as I have that in mind too if we choose St Michael's and we move in that area. She can then walk to school or is a very short bus ride away that saves sometime in her day.

Hi @lovestravel ! Firstly, congratulations to your daughter on her 11 plus results.

My daughter has university friends from each of these schools; all ended up at Cambridge. They are all 'normal', were all happy at their respective schools and all did well subsequently, too. Any pressure comes from within the individual. And the selective school type of pupil is likely to be driven and putting pressure on themselves, even if some do not show it.

I would focus on the school at which my daughter's place is most secure, avoiding the upheaval of moving if possible. And for travel, realistically, moving to within 'walking distance' is ambitious and may not work out. A bus ride is more realistic for most families.

Some people are against Latymer Edmonton on safety grounds. But no school area is really that safe, especially for girls.

I am writing to you by Private Message with with some detail on more personal experiences.

Thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your experience. Yes we need to be careful regardless and it's pragmatic to accept a place where we have most chance of acceptance.

Yes. I haven't visited Latymer but have friends children going to that school. I think the main difference is Latymer is coeducational but agree it looks like it has more sports fields which is encouraging. Though both are quite academic ( might not be as academic as HB and QE) and children can feel they might not have the time to focus as much on sports etc. Also one is a faith school and the other isn't. For me the main challenge is catchment for Latymer so St. Michael's feels like a more relaxed option given we can move in end of year 6. Thanks

I have two children at Latymer and one at St Michael's. Very happy with both schools. They do have different approaches, as they are different schools, religious emphasis, structure, playing fields etc. The main one my children notice is that there is a lot less homework at Latymer.

I know girls from Year 13 down to Year 7 and I cannot say I recognise the overly pressurised environment described above at St Michaels. This doesn't mean I don't acknowledge some girls will be suffering from eating disorders, anxiety, stress and the entire awful plethora of issues that are unfortunately all too common amongst teenagers, especially girls.

You are in a wonderful predicament, and you can't really make a bad choice!

How can you think of sending your child to a school you've never visited? Where will they go to primary for the rest of year 6? You will be expected to give up all connection to your old house to prevent you from moving back when you have the place.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience of your children in both schools. Agree that these are unfortunately common problems today and as parents we need to work with the school to support and provide guidance. It's hardly specific to a school. I am glad you have positive experiences of both. Is St Michael supportive overall of extra curricular activities like singing, drams and sports? My daughter has loved these activities in her primary school.

So where do you actually live at the moment, apart from within 9 miles of Newstead Wood, if your options for that are a 'long' journey, or to move nearer to the school?

Out of curiosity, how many entrance exams did your DD sit - and all without visiting the schools for which they might qualify her, or did you do the rounds of Bexley and Kent grammars and decide that there were none you woukd want her to attend, as these woukd seem to be the logical tests to go for if you are starting from within catchment for Newstead Wood?