Secondary school toilets

[LadyCrazyCatLady]

DD (Y7) has come home quite upset from school today after 2 Y9/Y10 boys unlocked the toilet cubicle that she was in and opened the door.

Luckily, they did not 'see anything' but DD felt quite scared as the lock started opening and she could hear the deep voices of older boys outside. I think given she was vulnerable and unfortunately we've recently had to talk about safety with regards to bodies/consent etc. following on from an incident involving a close family friend (also 11yo girl) she was particularly upset.

I asked about the layout of school toilets and she says most are usual school toilets with gaps at the top/bottom and they are mostly unisex. There are a handful of single sex toilets, but there's not always time to access them.

I'd like to approach this with the school, but not sure how best to word it.

I don't think these boys had any intent beyond a practical joke, but DD didn't know that and, as someone who was sexually assaulted in secondary school, I'm a little alarmed that it's that easy for older boys to access my DD while she's in a state of undress.

DD does not know who the boys are, once they'd opened her cubicle and laughed, they ran away.

Update: the school safeguarding lead got back to us first thing this morning.
She said she was very sorry that it had happened and she's proud of DD for telling us.

She said she will certainly not single DD out or anything, but would like to offer support to her if she's open to that. Says they can do it discreetly if DD prefers.

She's managed to identify the boys involved, through CCTV in the corridor outside the toilets and will be dealing with them as a matter of urgency.

She has escalated the problem with the toilet layout directly to the headmaster so it can be reviewed.

Don't think I could have asked for more from her.

That’s all good

Glad the safeguard lead has taken this seriously.

I work for at a secondary school. We only have one block of unisex toilets. This has floor to ceiling doors with no gaps. Also each cubicle has own sink. Plus easy to see from outside entrance way. This is to stop any iffy behaviour.

The boys and girls toilets in other areas of the school have all had their cubicles changed to no gaps floor to ceiling ones. The sinks are still outside of cubicles though existing layout was had to change.

Perhaps suggest these newer cubicle designs to your headmaster and safeguard lead.

There’s a problem that if a student collapses, they won’t be seen with floor to ceiling doors, not inclusive of disability. What if a girl had an epileptic fit in the loo?

By that logic we should put windows in the doors

During break and dinner the staff monitor toilets. Also check they are empty at the end of break and dinner.

During class time the students have to ask to go to the toilet. Therefore if not back in an appropriate amount of time SLT would be notified via app on our phones and laptops

We have had floor to ceiling cubicles and doors for about 5 years now. 1500 students in the school. Never had a problem with there being no gap. I mean a random thing could happen but you can't protect students against every random thing out there. It would be impossible. What this type of cubicle does is protect against peer on peer abuse such as upskirting, bullying and intimidation. It means we can make sure they are safeguarded when they are at their most vulnerable

This might be of use?

Fact Sheet from Safe School Alliance

I’d recommend raising concerns over peer on peer abuse and the Working Together to Safeguard Children legislation. They should be taking this incident very seriously in regards to this legislation.

winterseaswim could not agree more.

I toured a school and was so shocked.

They had doors that went to the floor but were flimsy and from my view unisex. You could be in a cubicle right next to a male. Then you had to share the hand washing area. 2 males could easily get in either side of your cubicle.

It was a new build and I was told it was designed to stop bullying and I thought this was just ridiculous. I was also told teachers could stand and watch which I thought was so weird.

I just thought that it was a set up where an assault could happen and one assault is one too many.

As if teachers can stand there monitoring toilets.

Females have been sold out with all this inclusive gender ideology.

Males are physically stronger.

I just thought imagine being a young female starting secondary and getting the hang of your period with a boy or 2, or a much older boy or 2 at that, or a violent boy, next to you.

LadyCrazyCatLady I worked at one place with unisex toilets and all the females I knew used to go out of the building at breaks to use the toilets. The unisex toilets were disgusting.

There is no way I want my daughter going to a school with mixed toilets.

LadyCrazyCatLady I am sorry for your past experience and your daughters. You are not overreacting. When you speak to school you tell them that they are not to meet with your daughter about the issue unless they also meet with a parent at the same time. By their entire design your daughter is already at a disadvantage.

Trulywonderful to be fair you won't really know if there are issues in the toilets unless reported. You have no idea what female students think of the cubicles.

Unless your school has done anonymous surveys requesting feedback from students and parents? And acted upon findings.

You say "you can't protect students against every random thing out there" maybe not but females should be protected from males, they are much bigger physically and please look into male pattern violence.

I hope the dirty little perverts get into a lot of trouble. They should! What kind of parents must they have, that their moral compasses are so incredibly screwed up?! I’d be pushing for police involvement personally.

Sorry I think you have misunderstood my post.

I was answering back to a poster that was saying floor to ceiling cubicles could be dangerous as you can't see a medical issue.

Before that I had posted about my own school getting these in all our boys and girls toilet blocks. Plus we have one block of these purpose built with sinks inside the cubicles. Then an entrance way we can see into from outside space. This is how we comply with the need for a few unisex loos, however safeguard at the same time. On no occasion do any students have to use the unisex loos, separate boy and girl ones are always available.

Apologies Trulywonderful for my delay to say sorry! Yes I did misunderstand your post.

I was watching England play rugby tonight not that that is an excuse

I am sure you can probably tell that I am very against unisex toilets. I feel once you start with these you erode sex based rights of females to their own space and dignity. Unless they fulfil a disability type agreement I suppose?

I worked in a school where the toilets were single-sex, but the sinks were open to the corridor. Also, staff had to share with pupils. (Secondary school.) Not great. Supposed to stop both bullying and vandalism.

I'm trying not to be graphic, but I had a really difficult perimenopause until my HRT stabilised. At times like that you don't want to be washing your hands in view of the corridor.

I also had an idiot headmaster who thought nothing of standing in the corridor and trying to engage you in conversation about faculty* matters while you were washing your hands.

One time, I had a senior girl run back to my room in tears. Idiot HT had tried to chat to her while she in the sink area - I think he might have strayed over the non-existent line. She'd had a really bad experience when she was younger and that was something she did not need.

*Many Scottish schools have amalgamated their departments.

I don't like the idea of only having unisex toilets too. I don't mind having them along side boy and girl toilets at school. However that is mainly because are block of them has sinks in the cubicle and because we provide a choice.

Another thing aside from safeguarding issues. Working in Schools has taught me is a lot of boys pee over seats and floor regularly, even the older boys. It is unhygienic to expect girls to have to seat or hover above toilets boys have been peeing on. It is frankly gross and could cause urine infections.

WearyAuldWumman I hear you loud and clear.

truly yes unisex toilets at my work were awful and this was a professional environment.

I feel for teenage girls. What a regressive environment.

Agreed.

Our school's original building had urinals for the boys. You could smell them as you walked past, because the boys peed up the walls.

We moved into the new building. Nice new clean toilets, eh?

A year later, the boys' toilets on our floor smelled just as bad as those in the old school. They were being cleaned at least twice a day. The non-existent door didn't help any...I used to hold my breath when I went past.

Aww poor thing. It is a tough one because they have to be able to open the doors from the outside in case a kid is in there and in trouble or ill. I do remember stuff like this at school too.... more boys climbing up and looking over. Rotten beasties!

You can ask the school to deal with this in a confidential way, so not to name your child. Those boys in all likelihood have done it to other girls too.
Unfortunatley too many schools have gone down the gender neutral route. Boys in general have not really changed over history, if there is an opportunity for being immature and silly most will take it. But they need to face consequences too.

I'm struggling to see why the single sex thing plays a part here?