A Level choices

[MooseAboutTheHoose]

I’m a long term follower and have rejoined MN within the last year but this is my first post with my new account. Sorry, it might be a long read!

My DD is 15 and in year 11, due to sit GCSEs next summer. Her school want initial A Level choices from her by 20th November (with final choices being set in February). We are somewhat at loggerheads over this, because I think she could be about to (potentially) make a big mistake! And yes, ultimately, I know it’s her choice, and she would have to live with the mistake.

Some background: Currently DD is taking Art, Drama, Spanish and PRE (philosophy, religion and ethics) as her options at GCSE. She is tracking at a 6-7/8 for most subjects. However currently working at a 5 in Maths, but has just had a change of teacher and is not happy with the teaching style of new teacher, having previously been tracking at a 6/7. (But that’s a different story!) She just got a 9 in her first piece of Drama coursework and her ultimate goal is to go to drama school after sixth form/gap year.

A Level choices that she is completely set on are Theatre Studies and Photography. However, they had a sixth form taster day at the end of year 10 and most of her friends did Psychology, so naturally she went with them. She is now adamant that this will be her 3rd choice A Level. She is absolutely not paying any attention to teachers who say that it is very science based. She thinks it will give her a ‘psychological edge’ when acting. (Despite advice saying that that’s unlikely!) She needs a level 6 in maths to do it, and that isn’t impossible for her but she does hate maths with a passion and swears under her breath every time the government mention carrying on with maths post GCSE! Her drama teacher and form tutor and the deputy head all feel that English Lit would be a better choice for her (Currently on track for a high 7 or 8 at GCSE.) BUT, and here’s the sticking point, she won’t consider it because she cannot stand her English teacher and they would potentially be one of 3 teachers to teach her at A Level and she can’t see past that. This teacher has really destroyed her love of a subject that she’s actually quite good at…and she’s still doing well at despite the personality clash with them.

So what can I do? (Her other potential choice is PRE but she wasn’t keen on how academic the philosophy portion seemed to be when she spoke to sixth formers who are taking the course.)
Should I flag the English issue with the school and see if I could get reassurances that she would be placed in the group for English that has the other teacher? I have encouraged DD to discuss options further with teachers and to express her concerns.

If she did Psychology and hated it (as we all very much suspect that she would) she may not be able to switch as it would depend on timetabling. But should I just give in and let her do the course despite all of the advice and my own personal opinion?

We have looked at alternative options for sixth form/college but of course there is no guarantee that she would get on with any teachers she had if she moved, and is it a ‘better the devil you know’ kind of situation? She is at a good school, the sixth form have very small class sizes and she is generally very happy there.

I’m at a bit of a loss because it’s very out of character for her to be quite this stubborn about something! Any advice would be really helpful, because we are going round in circles! (Thank you if you have read all of that!)

You let her do what she wants. It's that simple. My dm was horribly controlling when it came to my A-Level choices to the point where one of the subjects I did just to spite her. Another I really wanted to do she was ridiculously snobby about (English lang and lit combined, believe it or not).

If she's worried about getting a teacher she doesn't like then she either accepts that's life or doesn't pick the subject!

Although you can do A level maths with a 6, our local college recommends at least a 7. DD says everyone has 8s and 9s on her course. I can't see the benefit if she wants to act.

She could potentially hate any of these subjects at A level. If the school has any sense it would allow a six week grace period where pupils are allowed to swap subjects if they really dislike them at A level (lots of schools and colleges do this). Also, you can say something about the English teacher - however, personality clashes happen and I'm sure the school will not be able to guarantee that your dc does not have the teacher at some point over the two years of the course. Anything could happen a member of staff could leave etc. and they might have no choice etc.

Also as a psychology teacher - I have had young people do very well in psychology with 4 and 5 grades in Maths - although ideally I would prefer 6 and above it is possible. The maths is statistics and really not that difficult. It is quite science focused but quite often in my experience people without a keen interest in science enjoy it - it is more biology and human biology. Ask which is the course book and go have a look at it in a bookshop and see if she likes the look of the topics covered.

Also with the best intention here - she needs to be able to get on with teachers even if she doesn't like them. I know this is hard but in life we often have to work with people we don't like etc. Unless the teacher is doing something unprofessional she may just need to suck it up.

Good luck with your decisions.

My DD1 chose Psychology against the advice of her teachers and ended up having to drop it because it was just too difficult. She had 6 in Maths GCSE and agreed to do Core Maths (AS level) alongside her A levels to support the statistical element of Psychology. In retrospect she says that she really wished she had listened to the school’s advice. The school now asks for a 7 in Maths for Psychology. There is a lot of learning various theories in psychology and applying those, making it quite dry. DD2 is currently doing Drama & Theatre Studies A level and there really isn’t any way the Psychology content DD1 was studying would lean into that. Would the school let her start off with all four for a month or so - to let her see how they pan out? One of the benefits of staying on at the same setting is that there’s more flex for things like that - especially if they have any inkling she might go elsewhere.

@VerbenaGirl wow they ask for 7 in Maths to do psychology - that's very high and quite unusual - I would wonder what specification they are delivering and if they have a subject specialist teaching it. Sadly, too many schools do not have subject specialist delivering psychology and that can result in the subject appearing drying and boring which it certainly is not!

@MooseAboutTheHoose Firstly she needs to understand that the teacher is a tool to help her learn her subject. If she doesn't like them tough shit, get over it and get on with it. Post 18 and going on to drama school will her A level grades need to be a certain level to get into that? At the end of this it is about grades on a piece of paper.

Unless she is securing a 6 for maths by February then she might have no choice but to be entered for the foundation paper and only be able to get a maximum of a grade 5 so the decision will be taken out of her hands. Up to her if she wants to work at it to increase her grade. Does the sixth form have a hard line for the 6 for psychology? Where is she grades wise for sciences now?

Sadly this does feel about choosing a subject to be with her friends. Ds is at sixth form, last year in 3 subjects he was in the same timetable slots with his friends but they are all doing 4 A levels. This year's timetable they are not together for any of it because that one subject differece clashes on the timetable. It is also worrying that she is not listening to her teachers who know her and her ability.

So on all those fronts, I would be saying, you will support her choice to do pyschology but she needs to work at improving that maths grade. Also talk through what she will do if she starts performing badly in year 12 at psychology. Is she the kind of child to reach out for help? Do extra work at home to understand a subject?

What she needs to understand is that students get 3 years worth of funding from 16-19 however, if she does appallingly in year 12 she can't just resit the year. It isn't straightforward and has to do with funding. She would potentially be offered to resit but different subjects or she can sit the same subjects but at another college. Talk to the college now about timescales for changing subjects, usual available spaces for a possible subject change, what happens if she crashes her grade in psychology? Ultimately all of her success rests with her and her attitude to this. Some come out fighting, some aren't as resiliant and just slide.

@12345change DD mostly just sucks it up and gets on with this teacher. I really should’ve said something to the school sooner, but I do actually tend to agree with some of the issues she has with the teacher. (Very disorganised, has poor time management skills, DD is in one of two top set English classes and hers is the only class across all sets who haven’t had their coursework back, the teacher gave them just 2 weeks at the end of last year to do their English Language coursework (from start to final piece) whereas every other class didn’t have to complete it until September, teacher openly complains about her pay to the class and the hours she works at night (which is IMO very unprofessional). DD is very laid back and easy going, but two years of this teacher has really worn her down. So I do understand her predicament.
I asked the Deputy Head (who is in charge of timetabling) if they have a grace period and he said that she may be able to change course but he would not be able to guarantee that a space would be available or that she would get the subject she wishes to change to.

@VerbenaGirl I did broach the idea of 4 with the school (after DD had suggested it) and the Head and Deputy Head said they really wouldn’t recommend it for what she wants to do. I did 4 (3 very practical) and it was a lot, if she ended up not dropping one it could end up being a huge stress. (My mum told me not to do 4 and I didn’t listen…that was, in hindsight, a mistake!)
I am going to continue suggesting that she talks in depth to school teachers about this.

@MooseAboutTheHoose that doesn't sound good at all... especially the delay in getting work back - schools and colleges normally have policies on this I would definitely be tempted to raise this with the deputy. Sounds like the deputy is very sensible - as this is the downside of swapping in the first six weeks popular subjects are more difficult to swap into but if she started with a popular one that it might be easier to swap out - but as the deputy has said you might not get much of a choice at this point! Definitely find out the specifications (can be found online usually) and course books for the subjects that are in the running and get your daughter to have a read (Waterstones will let you do this) this might help her make a decision.

@madnessitellyou I am just keen to ‘protect’ her from making a choice that she will regret, DH is all for ‘it’s her mistake to make and she has to live with it’! I do think we should’ve raised our issues about the teacher in question, sooner. I did just attribute it to my DD being overly dramatic! But it has lately come to our attention that she isn’t the only member of the class to have been feeling this way. DD had mooted the idea of Fine Art AND Photography A Levels, which the head of Art said he had no issue with but the school might not like it and would be keen for her to choose a more academic option! Given her GCSE options it does quite limit what she can choose if she stays at the school.

Private school OP?

My DD got a 5 in maths at GCSE and worked hard to get an A in her A-level psychology. She was just really passionate about the subject and enjoyed it a lot which helped.

@Dishee it did initially feel that she was picking a subject that her friends were wanting to do, but she has really doubled down on it. She is being uncharacteristically stubborn and at the recent Sixth Form open evening didn’t really listen to what was being said about the subject. The school are telling them, that if they are having trouble deciding, to pick subjects they enjoy. So she says ‘I’m going to pick Psychology’ and my argument there is ‘you don’t know if you enjoy it because you have no experience of it other than a 50 minute taster session in year 10’! Honestly, she’s a good kid, she works exceptionally hard, is never in any trouble and this has all come very much as a surprise! I do really think that it could be about who is planning on doing the course!

@Piggywaspushed yes, independent school. She has scholarships in Art and Performing Arts as that’s where her real passions are.

Agree she needs to make the choice but she also needs to get to grips with the fact that she won't like everyone. It is also a bit pathetic to blame the personality of the teachers for her grades. She needs to just get on with it.

I wondered because you mentioned coursework.

Personally, I'd advise to swerve the psychology. She isn't going to gain the insight into drama she thinks she is. And it's basically a science.

Is there nothing else other than the ones you cite? Just Lit? No lang lit? Could she look more thoroughly into the philosophy spec? Is it actually philosophy or the RS A level.

Girls are buggers for doing subjects because their friends are , and psychology is especially prone to this...

No sociology on offer?

@12345change it’s a relatively small school so I’m not sure that it is likely that classes would be filled. I think the biggest concern Deputy Head had was about timetabling and fitting a change of course in with her other subjects.
She was handed a Psychology textbook at the open evening, she read down the contents page and then handed it to her friend (who actually flicked through the book). When I asked the sixth former in there about the other A Levels she was doing and what she wanted to do, it was clear that she was very science focused. DD is mostly interested in things from behaviour standpoint because she wants to get into the mindset of characters in her acting. (Her main focus, hence the drama school ‘plan’.)

DD1 did Psychology A-Level and enjoyed it the most out of her 3 subjects. There isn't a lot of Maths involved from what I remember and her school, a Grammar, asked for grade B (so a 6 in today's system) in GCSE Maths, English Lang/Lit and Biology to do it. There's far more writing than maths involved in it.

@cansu She has really good grades in English, despite her feelings about the teacher. Head of English is fabulous and has always really pushed for DD to do English, unfortunately she isn’t currently her teacher. I think DD really needs to talk this through more with school.

Oh I completely get you @MooseAboutTheHoose. My dd is leaving her school (which has a sixth form) because the options aren't wide enough. She thought about maths because she really likes the teacher but when she looked into what maths A-Level entailed she decided no teacher anywhere in the world could help her!

Honestly though, I'd let her at least start psychology.

@Piggywaspushed thats exactly what her drama teacher said. She is keen for DD to do English Lit because of the crossover with Theatre Studies. It’s a relatively small school so there’s less choice in subjects than if she went somewhere else. No Sociology, no English Language (which would be DD’s choice over Lit).
The Philosophy is Philosophy, Religion and Ethics A Level. She is doing this at GCSE and is tracking at a solid 7. I think she definitely needs to speak to the head of the subject to get his take on how the course works. He is an exceptional teacher and I’m sure he would be completely honest with her about the subject and how it works at A Level. I personally think it would be a better fit for her than Psychology. She is doing combined science GCSE and will likely get a 6/6. She’s bright, but it’s not her passion.

My DD2 was exactly the same @madnessitellyou! She's a good mathematician, got 7s in all 3 maths GCSEs but looked at the A level spec and thought 'nope' despite having a brilliant teacher.

Interestingly for this thread, she opted for psychology as her third A level and never really loved it in the way she did her other two. It served a purpose, that's about the best you could say about it.

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread but I’d suggest you get an A level Psychology text book out of the library / off eBay so she can see directly what the curriculum covers.

Is Sociology a possibility - this is really interesting and gives an insight into the influences behind human behaviour / how society works which might also help on the Drama side.

@madnessitellyou I honestly feel like she’s set on it because her friends want to do it and due to the other options available to her. The queue at open evening was out the door for Psychology! Having looked at other sixth form options locally she can’t seem to get all the options she’s keen on in one place! Some have English Language but no Theatre Studies or Photography. Some have Photography but no English Language etc.

@VanCleefArpels sadly no Sociology on offer which is a shame because it does feel to me that it would be a slightly better fit. The only place locally that offers it doesn’t do Photography which she is 100% set on.