Worried about DD 11+

[Annawintourssteak]

My DD goes to a local state school and does very well and consistently gets fantastic school reports. She’s in the top set for all subjects and has been selected for extra groups such as Maths Club for the most adept. She’s been having tutoring for the past year for the upcoming 11+.

She is naturally so diligent and studious and is working so hard as she’s very very keen to get in to the schools we’ve chosen. We’re also applying for sports scholarships as she plays one sport to a national level and another to a very high level.

She’s recently got atom and the scores she is getting on the mock tests are not good. I’m most concerned she won’t pass the 11+ and the effect this will have on her. I’m very very much saying ‘do your best, it really doesn’t matter what the outcome is, because there are great options either way’, but know how much she wants this and worry the messaging this will give - that working hard at things isn’t enough to succeed. I can’t bear the thought of the disappointment.

I know there is little anyone can advise, but has anyone else been in this situation and how did it play out.

Also, is there any leeway for coming from a state education and being super sporty.

Thanks

If your child is the youngest and very bright then it can help being the youngest.. but it depends upon the test and how others find it whether the age adjustment is significant or not.

@Annawintourssteak We applied to those schools last year - KGS probably the most competitive of them, followed by Emanuel. Harrodian is rather difficult to predict but probably similar to Emanuel. IPS offered last year to similar kids as KGS, which was a really bad move on their side as they ended up exhausting their reserve list (and reportedly have a smaller group this year) - so hopefully they have taken that on board and pitch their offers differently, and they could well become your back up.

Of those schools, Harrodian is the only one that uses adaptive computer tests (ISEB), so Atom is more relevant. BUT note that they put a lot of weight on the extra-curricular and interview (my DD loved their interview and got an offer but other kids where quite 'thrown' by it).

IPS uses CEM for first stage - so focus is on speed and accuracy of relatively straight forward questions. And make sure that your DD does not get dazed if she does not finish in the allocated time. Second stage is more traditional. Differently to the others, they do not interview. At my DD's school the kids that got an offer where those, like my DD, with offers from more academic / competitive schools - none of them accepted the offer.

Emanuel's exam is rather traditional - Maths, English and VR. They have practice papers in their website and they are a fair representation of what the exam will be like. The exam is followed by interview (rather straightforward despite asking a 10-year old which other schools they have applied to) and a short group exercise. Their selection process was quite relaxed (considering) and we ended up considering their offer more than we thought we would have done at the beginning.

KGS's exam is a Maths and English paper-based assessment and their selection process is super-transparent (including providing examples of how they mark the exams). We loved the school and it was a close runner up, and the selection process made us like it even more as they were both professional, considerate and mindful of putting things at ease. If there are other kids applying from her primary they try to put them together so they have some familiar face around. Also, if they call your DC for a so-called 'general interview', your chances of offer are very high (so passing their exam is a really good sign that gives your quite a lot of peace of mind for the rest of the process) and that interview is really a relaxed chat.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask me any question, either here or via DM.

My colleague's son is in KGS, he loves it there.

However, KGS does not have much onsite sports facility, sporty kids need to consider if offsite to Ditton Field is OK in that aspect. Some will be OK with that travel some others may not.

Also wrt CEM select test, Atom offer the practice for this style too, not the true resemblance but good practice anyway.

https://atomlearning.com/blog/cem-select

<Waves at @QuiteAJourney >

Agree that you start the 11 plus process with no clear idea of where your child sits in their cohort, but that’s why it’s a good idea to apply to a range of schools. The KGS exam results come out really early (from memory, before DS had even sat most of the other exams) so that at least gives you some idea.

Also agree that KGS lacking in on site sport - no sports hall - but they have on site netball courts and Ditton Field is awesome. They have a wonderfully inclusive approach to sport and if your DD likes hockey I suspect she would be very happy there. But don’t expect dozens of minor sports - not the room or the number of students.

@Trickleg waving back!

Completely endorse the reference to strong and inclusive sports at KGS. My DD has close friends there with different abilities / focus on different sports and all are happy with the sport provision. Hockey is particularly strong as is rowing, but other main sports also well represented. Of the schools mentioned, KGS is the one with stronger sport provision.

How does the age adjustment work if the dc is a year older, say summer born but waited until they were 5 to start school so are older than the oldest September candidates?

@RelenFour , the private school has to agree to take an out of academic year admission, they may choose to not accept the application, it depends on the dc and school.

@Annawintourssteak you still have time. The atom scores will go up with practice. Both my dc had scores of low 100s when they first tried (also coming from state school). My dd was not in top sets for everything in state and no special groups when she applied for 11+ (but end of year report she was top for everything because of 11+ prep). Anyway, it sounds like your dd is doing very well and is very capable. Just have her focus a bit on atom learning. But also, it depends what exams she does. My dd started Atom learning and tutoring end of year 5. She only had one written exam (emanuel), so my focus was only Atom because her other exams (Putney, London Consortium for G&L and FHHS) were online. And according to her were very similar to Atom. The group tutoring she did focused on written comprehension and math. Creative writing went out the window for us, as bc we did not have much time and it was only on one exam (Emanuel). Focus on what is most important. In the end all went well. So do not worry about low Atom scores at the start. They go up with practice.

I find this too much, missing out on play dates, birthday parties or sport activities just because you need to spend time prepping? Surely, you can still do these activities and still find time to prep? My dd kept a very full activity load with sports and other activities (6 days a week), had regular sleepovers/play dates with friends, went to all the bdays she was invited to. It is possible to prep a little here and there.

In terms about the impact on your DD if she gets rejected by all of the private schools, then you need to start managing that now by referring to all of the schools (both private & state) that you're looking at as options & wanting to see what the best fit is for you, Emphasise now that, even if she gets an offer from a private school, it might not be the one for her and you might reject it in favour of preferred state school. Also talk about the fact that, whilst the private schools probably have better sports facilities, the additional homework and need to do school sports may mean she gets less time to do her preferred sport,

What's atom good for? Is it useful if you don't do the 11+?

I agree, there are a lot of time outside school and weekend. Personally I won't sacrifice sports activities or attending birthday parties time for the extra prep.

This does happen for some parents though, and it seems that they got in the schools they want in the end, perhaps even they did more other activities they would still have got in, but you will never know.

My point of this example is that personal assertion on direct experience is one thing, but it can be contradicted by observations or other sources of information.

@letmesailletmesail , there is nothing to indicate that the dd won't get an offer from Ibstock, they were unable to fill their year 7 places for girls this Sept despite ringing those who they had previously rejected and offering places. I'm sure the dd will be fine and she has a range of schools that use different testing methods.

It helps them cover the curriculum. It definitely gets them ahead, but not sure why you would need this if you are not doing the 11+? Unless your dc wants to do math and english for fun? No need for the verbal and non verbal. But beware, once your dc starts doing 11+ prep they will become bored at school, at least this is what happened to my two dc. But no choice for us, as we are/did the 11+ exams (dd completed them and ds will do them).

My DD used Atom to prepare for CAT4, and she was finding it hard but when she did actual test she found test being so much easier and more simple than Atom tests. As in Atom se was scoring around 110, then in her real test she scored 118. She used atom as self study and did only mock tests and read through solving so to understand solution. She only had 2 weeks to prepare for it as we applied late for school and we found that Atom did wonders by being extra harder. Because she was applying for sports scholarship she needed her scores to be national average, so there wasn't much pressure for her to score high.

Thanks - I didn’t realise that was the case with scholarship applications. Presumably this only applies if said child would receive the scholarship??

I think its the case for sports scholars as obviously they proving that they are good in sports and competing on national level requires loads of training and travel time, so they miss out on school work. but the tests scores needs to be at average to still show that they are capable to keep school academic levels up. But worth checking with your school, email about desired scores to admission team for sports scholars, as if they will only take higest academics then they surely will miss out on some sporty kids who would be more than capable to keep up academics.. Our school was very helpful, I even got shared test results as I just wanted to know out of interest.