Aylesbury High School vs Sir Henry Floyd

[SchoolLemon]

We are in the happy position of being able to choose between AHS and SHF for DD. We live more or less equidistant. I was hoping to get some input from current parents on either school.

My observations are: on paper, AHS seems the better school - slightly higher results and a wider range of GCSEs offered. Trips seem better too.

But wandering around the school, children seemed a little more socially adept at SHF and the atmosphere seemed a bit less hot-housed. It also seemed more ethnically diverse, whereas AHS seemed predominately Asian (no problem with this - other than it means it could lack diversity. For reference, approximately 15% of our local population is Asian, whereas the school appeared 60%+ Asian)

AHS seemed to go BIG on trans visibility, which is a concern from a social contagion point of view, and I could see several individuals presenting as non-binary. Again, no huge problem with this, but wonder if it's more prevalent at girls' schools. And as far as I know, SHF may be the same and I just missed it.

DD's strengths are English, Art, History, Music. She enjoys sport but has limited aptitude (takes after me!). She likes performing arts but is probably a behind-the-scenes person rather than a star performer.

I would be keen to hear from any parents with any views on either school.

@SchoolLemon As I don’t know any Asian families where I live (in catchment) where are they all coming from? I have my suspicions that Aylesbury Vale area doesn’t have anywhere near sufficient 11 plus dc for 3 grammars in Aylesbury plus Buckingham. I’m assuming quite a few are travelling in? I assume the boys grammar is the same. It appears these schools have changed out of all recognition!

Our part of Aylesbury Vale probably has about 15-20% Asian population, but my younger DD's tutoring group is 90% Asian, 5% Eastern European and the rest mixed between white British and Black. I think first/second generation immigrants value education very highly and (broadly speaking) expect their children to work hard.

Then of course you get the effect of people going where their friends/family go - much like Wimbledon has a large South African population, plus the fact that disproportionately Asian families are more likely to want their girls educated in a single-sex environment.

The test system is crap - catchment is really carefully managed to make sure that local children are prioritised (SHF and AHS are both our catchment schools), but the test itself is standardised on a lot of out-of-county children taking it, meaning not enough Aylesbury children pass the test in the first place. So the test scores are pushed up, the last-admitted child gets further out and families do travel in from Milton Keynes, and all the little villages up to Luton. There's not a single one of DD's schoolfriends who lives in Aylesbury proper - they are all Haddenham, Wing, Long Crendon, Stone etc.

That scenario hasn’t changed much in terms of AV. Half the pass rate of CSB area was fairly standard. Village dc are less likely to be Asian though. It’s been the case for decades that dc find friends from far afield! Just surprised at the ratios. SHF used to be a specialist performing arts school when that was a thing. MFLs at AHS.

@TizerorFizz you always seem so knowledgeable of Bucks schools! How would you sum up both schools, please?

Yes! I knew this. SHF has recently started letting pupils do French and German AND Spanish in Y7, and then they choose to drop one in Y8. Previously two languages were randomly allocated, but they follow more closely what AHS do now.

@SchoolLemon thanks for your updates, your DD sounds like she's thriving. We're visiting both schools this week, just hoping there's an obvious winner as we don't have long to make our application.
Our DD is quite shy, but is so lovely and kind with many friends. Suspected ADHD, so pastoral care will be important. She's not a genius child and was tutored through 11plus, so I'm nervous of high pressure environment - but she loves the idea of an all girls school.
Thank you. This has been so helpful.

I'm also slightly confused with the trust that SHF is part of. It includes the The Mandeville School which had a very poor ofsted fairly recently. Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

@Hotdoughnut I have a friend with an ASD boy at SHF, and they have been fantastic with him

There are several local schools in the wider trust - at least two of them are upper schools that have only fairly recently joined the trust. Upper schools have an uphill climb for Ofsted for obvious reasons as a large percentage of the higher achieving pupils are stripped out.

SHF pastoral care team recently won best pastoral care at the Bucks School Awards, though DD doesn’t have much to do with them. I think it’s odd that the pastoral team is also in charge of discipline so a lot of the kids avoid them like the plague!

We have this dilemma too. DD is bright, equally good at science and arts and very much into the performing arts. She was tutored for 11+ but not intensely and got a v good score. Is diagnosed ASD with suspected ADHD but very extrovert and sociable and will definitely want to go out lots with friends. We’ve been to open days at both already and are going again next week. Did notice the lack of diversity at AHS and wondered about cliques and social life so that is interesting it’s been raised as a potential issue. Everyone in our village (just outside Aylesbury) that has gone to grammar in the last few years has chosen SHF - all white. This year quite a few girls in her class have passed and the only two saying they prefer AHS are both Asian. The others (including DDs best friend) are likely to go to SHF. We are undecided. The head at AHS is v impressive and open day was more organised. The girls seemed confident and happy and the atmosphere was relaxed. DH and I were really impressed. DD loved SHF - I think mainly for the performing arts stuff. So hard to know what would be best for her. She finds boys annoying and disruptive but worried she needs to be exposed to them to be able to learn to cope with them. I went to a girls grammar and was petrified of boys by the time I left!
Have friends with girls at SHF who are really happy with it. Have also heard of friends of friends who are happy with AHS. I suppose there are no bad options so it’s a good dilemma to have.
This has been a really useful read, if anyone else has any thoughts on the two schools I’d be really pleased to read them.

I've said upthread my DD is at AHS.

Funnily enough one of her friends groups is mainly of Asian background and they can't meet without supervision.

DD has naturally broadened her friendship group as she's got older, and now they go out one lunchtime a week (only for yr11), and her Asian friends are not allowed to leave school.

She had other friends her got to SFGS and they are all Asian.

Glad you made the best decision for your DD though.

I went to the Floyd. I 100% recommend it. Having worked in the local area and further afield, I’ve come across several very successful women who turned out to go to the same school as me. I’ve never worked with anyone from AHS. SHF is particularly good for music and performing arts. For destinations: One of my classmates went on to work in the West End. Another was a buyer for a major high street clothing chain within a year or two of finishing uni and has moved up through the leadership. Another became a bestselling romance author (but she keeps it quiet). Idk what any of the boys did, we didn’t really stay in touch. I know their results aren’t top of Bucks but I’d choose the Floyd any time for my kids when they’re older. They also really focused on personal development, building confidence and self esteem for students when I was there, which I think is what set us all up for life.

I went to AHS, albeit some decades ago. I'm sure 'progress' has been made but I always vowed that if I ever had a daughter no way would she go there. Everyone I've met locally who went to SHF are so well adjusted socially. I can see huge benefits of single sex education up to age (say) 16 but needs to be co-ed after that. I had 2 sons. One aspergers (undiagnosed at the time
..bright lad but with multitude of social issues) and both boys went to boys grammar, and have 'ended up' like me with zero confidence in social situations. Both sons 35+, but I don't think either has ever had girlfriend (or boyfriend) let alone a serious relationship. The schools made (and make) a great issue of the 2 single sex grammars doing joint activities....in my (a little) outdated experience it's a load of ooey. They said the same when I went to AHS (joint musicals, drama etc). Load of nonsense then as well. SHF far far better for a life well lived. I feel really passionately about this (can you tell?).

@Hotdoughnut I’ve lived in this area for most of my life. Summing up - the schools are changing. I do think it’s partly driven by who is “passing” the 11 plus and even 10-15 years ago, The Floyd was seen as the lesser of the two options. It was always the school picked by the less upwardly mobile parents and ones who had not been to university. A slightly “not for the likes of us” type scenario around AHS and AGS used to be the case. In DDs year at school, not a single girl went to the Floyd. This is from a largish junior in catchment.

The boys we know, it’s been more varied, although in DDs year, only 1 went to the Floyd . Neighbours boys - all the Floyd. The very mathsy dc like the grammar, the more humanities dc like the Floyd. The Floyd was always smaller and, as a former technical school, was not always seen by locals as the same as the other schools. I don’t think many people cared that it was co-ed. Where I live, the grammars ruled.

Now, the pass rate in Aylesbury Vale isn’t filling these schools so their character is changing but you still might get the very high flyers at the grammars but it’s difficult to know. Certainly doctors dc we know haven’t used the Floyd, so the science for girls at AHS is still valid. Just to add - every single dd we know that’s been to AHS is perfectly lovely with no concerns about their education at all. They are doctors, vets, working in finance, etc etc and are perfectly well adjusted!

At the end of the day, choose what suits dc. Look at everything on offer and what dc might enjoy. The schools will fill up from surrounding counties and its altering the schools. They are both first class schools though.

The Mandeville School has been a basket case on snd off for decades. Nothing works over a period of time.

Just to say - no senior school has been a Bucks cc school for a long time now. A were academy converters. It’s only fairly decently they have formed Trusts to help each other but as Chesham Grammar found out with a local primary, the battle is immense and what works in a grammar, doesn’t always work elsewhere.

Also attainment doesn’t drive a good ofsted rating. Waddesdon has been outstanding (of course they select differently) but many Bucks secondary schools are good with the grammar dc gone. In Aylesbury the secondary catchment works differently and The M has never had a good reputation. Neither do the other 2 periodically because many parents prefer JC or C. It’s always been the same with W as top choice. Schools can be good without the grammar dc and in Aylesbury, that’s not a vast % missing.

The trust including the Floyd require staff to be flexible where they work, this can be great for development.....but it can also put off teachers applying or make them feel effectively required to work somewhere they don't want to. If you apply to work at AHS then that's where you'll be, if you apply HFGS then not so much.

Just to clarify, as it's not clear from your post, SHF is a grammar. So saying "The grammars rule" - you presumably mean Aylesbury High School (girls) and Aylesbury Grammar School (boys)?

I don't get the sense that AHS comes with "not for the likes of us" vibes. I was privately and Oxbridge educated. DH is also a university graduate.

The girls I met at the open day at AHS (albeit a tiny sample size) were clearly very, very bright, but somewhat lacking in people skills and brimming with a misplaced (and in some cases full-on incorrect) confidence. One told my DD that, "If you get into a grammar, you're top of the list for universities, as they pick grammar school pupils first.", a falsehood I had to correct later on the way home! Like I say, a tiny sample size, but we definitely met children who were more grounded and with better people skills at SHF.

This is definitely true. DD had a lot of substitute teachers in Y7 and I wondered if this was because they were being temporarily poached by Kingsbrook or the Mandeville!

On the plus side, you get to share facilities, so for example SHF benefits from a school bus, shared with another school in the Trust. It probably also means retention is better for good staff, as leadership roles are more likely to be available in the wider trust, so they stay within the pool.

Honestly, you're hard pushed these days to find a school that isn't part of an Academy Trust, and speaking from (professional) experience, I think a smaller trust like Insignis, has some benefits, and far fewer drawbacks than some of the huge ones.

This is such useful insight, thank you! Diversity is of course great, but I'm quite concerned if the majority is a culture where girls can't socialise outside school, or need accompanied etc - that is a huge negative for us. I feel Floyd will be a better fit for our DD, from what I'm reading here and other sources. But I'm worried it's crazy to turn down AHS, as it's amazing on paper and I saw recently it ranks as one of the best state schools in the country. Eeeek what a decision....

@SchoolLemonHaving worked for Bucks LA and been a school governor in Aylesbury, historically there was very much a difference between who chose what school. I didn’t say The Floyd was not a grammar but for a very long time is was the grammar you got into on appeal and did not start life as a grammar school so local people did see it as second best. I’m not saying that’s the case now. Why would I? However there is a difference between the schools and all grammars in Bucks have been academies for a long long time.

It’s part of the Insignis academy trust. Princes Risborough Upper School is another upper school that is also part of that trust and its reputation has significantly improved recently.

I’ve lived here my whole life and teach (primary) locally. I went to AHS, my brother went to the Floyd and my two sons have been to the Floyd. (one still there).

I think both schools are great, and we’re really lucky to have the options. While I’ve noticed that the Floyd has slightly less strong academic results, they’re still very strong. Both my boys have been really happy there.Behaviour is great, pastoral support has been strong and (and for me this is important), all of my 18 year old’s friendship are genuinely just lovely, polite, friendly and hard working kids!!

There's absolutely no basis to a "grammar you get into on appeal". If you are successful at Selection Review, you get treated exactly as if you had passed, and, assuming you're in catchment, you have your choice of all grammar schools equally.

I guess there might be a kind of self-selection thinking that AHS might be a hothouse environment unsuited to a borderline child, but in terms of likelihood of successful entry to either school, it's identical.

That is exactly how we felt - seems crazy to ignore what's best on paper! SHF open morning tickets went online on Friday (hopefully there are some still available - they go quickly). Definitely have another look round both schools and see which one suits your child best.

I would reiterate that if your child is strong in STEM, I would highly recommend single-sex, for the pure fact that your DD will see that there's no such thing as a "boys'" subject and won't be dissuaded from e.g. physics, maths or PE. I genuinely loved being at an all-girls' school - though it's true it took me a while at uni to realise that all these uber-confident boys were mostly talking bollocks, and to learn how to push back - I suspect that would have come sooner if I'd been co-educated.

(And equally if she loves drama/dance, the Floyd is a no-brainer - and also gets excellent results.)

This is exactly how I’m feeling too. It seems crazy not to put such a high achieving school first, but the social aspect is a big worry. One of DDs best friends (and is putting AHS first) is not ever allowed to come to birthday parties unsupervised or come to our house unsupervised, and if that is replicated a lot that won’t be ideal. Especially as they get even older.

No concerns about AHS ‘not being for the likes of us’ being a thing at all, both DH and I are university graduates, as is everyone else here who has recently sent their child to the Floyd. I wonder if things have changed a lot in the last few years.

@FlatStanley50 glad we're not alone! I honestly think the social aspect is huge for us. We've seen AHS twice and loved it, but never thought anything of the ethnic part of it, as hadn't realised it would impact socially. Never bothered to view Floyd as we didn't expect her to pass! Really hoping the visits this week give a clear answer for us... good luck to you!

Our daughter got 122, so maybe AHS would be a struggle for her?