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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Do you think this school would suit a school refuser who only likes school when they do non academic lessons?

30 replies

Ineedtopaintthedoor · 14/10/2023 08:43

My DS (Y6) struggles with school and is a bit of a school refuser. He’s been diagnosed with dyslexia, dyscalculia and Auditory Processing Disorder. Academically, he is very weak, hate to say it, but he’s behind and getting further behind. He has support in place but he has tantrums over it and behaviour can be hard to handle when he isn’t following or understanding what everyone else in the class is. He’s very good with his hands/practically minded and excels at this I think. Sometimes, the only days I don’t have to physically drag him out of bed, force him into uniform and pull him along the street to school, usually all of this is while he’s having a tantrum/acting up/being a right pain, are when they have PE or swimming or drama afternoon or music day or are doing making bat boxes or something like that. Those days he is keen to go.

It’s taken a lot of searching, and actually it was the SENCO at primary who initially pointed me in the schools direction, but I’ve found a school which I really think he will like and might actually want to turn up to. It’s an academy but they aren’t running like a traditional school. They have a longer day 0830-1630. It has a learning support department and seems really caring but I don’t think it’s as good as the learning support department in the local/catchment/guaranteed school although they will support him.
They do a lot of hands on/experiential learning even in the core subjects.
They have 3 lessons a day covering English, maths, science, languages and humanities. They have given the impression, and shown it off on an open day, that they value the academic side of things and want to get it right. But their methodology and ethos is all about experiencing things to learn about things. Everything is related to real life, doing things, working together to get the right results. We saw a maths lesson where Y11 were using equations to work out finances and housing budgets in their groups. We saw a Y7 geography lesson about changing landscapes entirely taught outside in the rain. We saw a Y8 language lesson which was about communicating rather than drilling grammar. The kids were actually talking to each other in groups about what their plans were for the weekend in German. We also saw several practical lessons such as performing arts, DT, electronics, horticulture and construction. All which peaked DS interest. I thought this might all be put on for the open day, so I asked to go back another day and it was no different. I’ve also been and “stalked” the school at random times over the last month and seen many lessons outside or in the local area or the park.
They have 2 lesson of outdoors education from Y7-Y9, 2 lessons of sport, 2 lessons of arts on rotation, 2 lessons of engineering and technology on rotation and 2 lessons of life skills which sweeps up the practical skills which don’t fit into the rest as well as citizenship, RE, politics, the world of work and even how to change a bike tyre.
They than have a lesson doing something else. This can be anything from homework to sport or gardening to chess or another language to woodwork or science experiments to band - basically what everyone else calls after school extra curricular is part of the school day.
At GCSE they have a lot of vocational options - BTEC Engineering, hospitality and catering, sports, construction, land based studies, travel and tourism, horticulture and ICT. They also have plenty of practical GCSEs. As long as he does English, maths and combined science he would be allowed to do what suits him (within reason - timetabling). They have said they don’t care about results other than English, maths and what each child is interested in passing to succeed in their future. On the other hand, they do offer the full range of academic GCSEs and a handful got all 7/8/9 this year across 8/9 subjects including EBacc subjects. Surprisingly, their headline English and maths % are roughly the same as local school. P8 headline is lower. However, except for EBacc P8, the P8 breakdown scores blow the local school away. They are also drawing in quite a comprehensive mix of pupils.

However, this school is in a different town. It would require him to travel there on the bus for 30 minutes (about 45 minutes all in) and also travel back. I know this in itself has problems due to friendships, busses not running etc. I worry, especially knowing the effort it can take to get him to school some days whether this is a big risk and he will not get on the bus/deliberately get off at the wrong stop/not go into school and there is not a lot I can do about it.

The school also seems to be like marmite. Everyone I’ve spoken to either loves it or won’t touch it. When digging into the reasons, the love it group like how they engage the kids and all their kids, regardless of ability, enjoy going to school. This group of parents seem to think their kids are getting more out of school and learning more because they are not in the classroom all the time. The won’t touch it group tell me it’s to do with a “wishy-washy” curriculum, or lack of sitting in the classroom and learning, or their kids wouldn’t get a proper education there and all of them told me not to consider sending DS there. But, when asked, none of them have direct experience of the school. It’s undersubscribed, not massively, about 10 pleases each year, so a place is likely.

OP posts:
Barrowgirl · 14/10/2023 08:48

I’d give it a go

The current situation sounds shit enough to give pretty much anything a try

Gunpowder · 14/10/2023 08:52

I think it sounds wonderful and would be worth the extra commute. What is your DS’s opinion?

minipie · 14/10/2023 08:53

I would definitely give it a go. Can you tour it with him and see his reaction?

That kind of journey is normal here in London. I do take your point about bunking off but tbh that’s a risk even if he went to a closer school. Could you get him a GPS watch and you can at least see where he is…

Validus · 14/10/2023 08:53

it’s to do with a “wishy-washy” curriculum, or lack of sitting in the classroom and learning, or their kids wouldn’t get a proper education there

but your son needs a lack of sitting in a classroom. He needs practical. I’d go for it - he will need less SEN support if the school actually suits him. And remember that it’s not set in stone - you can move schools if it’s not working out.

LimeCheesecake · 14/10/2023 08:54

To me it reads like you know this is the best fit for your ds, but are worried because people who have more academic children wouldn’t want to send them to this school - mainly because it won’t stretch those who unlike your ds, are interested in learning in a more traditional way.

you are trying to find a good school for your ds, not someone else’s.

how big is the year 6 cohort in your town? We know in our town it’s a low birth year compared to the 3 previous year groups, so it’s more likely that movement between schools is likely to be easier. Given that, I’d go for this school for your ds with an eye on possibly being prepared to apply for a place in a more conventional local school if it doesn’t seem to work out.

as I understand it, you won’t get transport costs help if you’ve not applied to a local school option so factor in if you can afford to send him.

Stressfordays · 14/10/2023 08:56

Id 100% go for it. If that kind of school was available in my area, I'd of sent my eldest there. He's not a school refuser but is not academic and more physical. He has settled into a traditional school luckily but there is a JCB academy near me (although a long journey) that starts from year 9 that I always had in the back of my head if he struggled.

LimeCheesecake · 14/10/2023 08:56

Also longer term, is moving to the different town an option for you? Obviously not for application deadline, but within a couple of years.

Mosaic123 · 14/10/2023 08:59

It does sound good for your son. And the current type of school he is in is not working well for him so logically it is worth a try.

I'm impressed by your through research.

itsgettingweird · 14/10/2023 08:59

We need more schools like this in the UK. More schools that encourage children to explore their strengths and really work on them.

I think we'd have less MH problems with this age group of they didn't always feel like they were failing in an education system designed as a one way fits all and dressed up in uniforms designed as a one size fits all.

The thing that worries me is that if we switch to a British advanced level type system these schools will disappear.

I'd go for it. Why shouldn't your ds do lessons he's enjoys and work on things he's good at because his brain operates in a different way? If it does t work for him you can look at applying for an ehcp and getting him into a specialist school.

PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister · 14/10/2023 08:59

Well at the minute he’s not really going to school, so you’ve lost nothing. It’s got to be worth a try 🤷🏻‍♀️

BMIwoes · 14/10/2023 09:00

It sounds great - in fact it's exactly tly the kind pf.school I'd love for my son. Sadly no schools like that in my part of London 😞

Smartiepants79 · 14/10/2023 09:04

How likely are you to get a place? Is it a state school?
Its sounds fascinating.
I’d definitely try it if I was you.
What kind of qualifications do the kids come out with at the end? Are their results good enough (they don’t need to be amazing in my opinion) to go off and support them getting jobs?

Midnightkitty · 14/10/2023 09:08

You need to choose the right school for your child, and this school sounds perfect for your dc. Definitely go for it. Ignore everyone else, they are not parenting your child.

Travel is doable. Plenty of people would advocate that for a grammar school.

WASZPy · 14/10/2023 09:37

How long has this school been open? Has it been ofsteded yet? I'm wondering how they can afford that curriculum.

BananaSandwiches3 · 14/10/2023 09:41

It sounds like it might work for you. You say your DS likes to go to school when they have practical days. This school sounds like it has practical days every day so he might want to turn up. Have you spoken to him? What does he think?

How does it compare to the local school? I notice you say learning support might be better there. What would be the priority? The school with better learning support or the school that has subjects to keep him in school? If he’s enjoying what he’s doing he might actually get more out of the practically based school. No matter how much learning support you put behind someone, if they are not motivated, they will not benefit from it.

Also you mention your primary SENCo pointed you towards the practical based school. I would take that as a really positive thing. SENCos have lots of experiences with lots of different types of children and will know things that we, as parents, don’t necessarily know. The fact the SENCo has identified this school, shouts to me, with big flashing lights on top, that this school might really work for your DS.

Bellasbeau · 14/10/2023 09:44

It certainly seems worth a try. Your son is already struggling in primary, the issues usually escalate in secondary. You know that your son will like the practical nature of the school so go for it.
Apply for an EHCP if you haven’t already done so to get your DS the SEN support he needs.

OneWildNightWithJBJ · 14/10/2023 12:59

It sounds great OP. Don’t underestimate how much the setting can affect a child. DS, now in Y11, was barely able to go to school for over three years. He has left a year early and attends a specialist college, getting up early every day and travelling on buses and trains.

As a teacher, I think there needs to be a huge rethink on how we educate our children. School as we know it, is really not suitable for everyone.

theduchessofspork · 14/10/2023 13:03

I’d absolutely give it a go

No school suits every kid, so you can only research and then try

The commute isn’t that bad

YouJustDoYou · 14/10/2023 13:05

30 minutes is nothing. It'd be so worth it.

Saracen · 15/10/2023 09:57

That sounds brilliant. A 45 minute commute is normal and fine.

I do wonder how this school manages to pay for the extra staffing required for the longer school day. Two of my relatives went to a similar-sounding school, but it was private. They loved it, especially the child who liked hands-on learning.

The only downsides for them were firstly, the long school day was tiring. I assume/hope the one you are looking at doesn't give out much homework? Secondly, the long school day prevented them accessing some extracurricular activities they would have liked to do. Their parents' idea had been that that need would be met within the school day, and it sort of was, but of course there were a few very specific things the kids wanted to do which the school didn't offer. Thirdly, as it wasn't their nearest school, it wasn't convenient to see friends outside of school time.

I still think it was a good choice.

Peaceandkindness · 15/10/2023 09:59

Why don’t do you a taster day

Saracen · 15/10/2023 10:09

A couple of other possibilities to look at if this school doesn't work out:

Some colleges have provision for 14-16 year olds, which is usually hands-on and vocational. It tends not to be widely advertised, and may not even feature on their website, so ring up and ask. That would still leave you with the problem of what to do for Y7-Y9.

If you're in a position to home educate, you can build whatever you want, including a good variety of practical subjects. Academic subjects can be covered in a hands-on way. For example, my eldest focused on art, music, and sports coaching, and is now studying animation at university. My younger child learns practical life skills such as DIY and money management, and has done a succession of casual woodworking classes. GCSEs wouldn't be possible for her, but she might do Functional Skills exams in due course.

PinkFrogss · 15/10/2023 10:16

I’m wondering how they can afford that, and what will happen if/when they can’t afford it any longer.

cestlavielife · 15/10/2023 10:22

Of course. Give it a go
It sounds perfect for your child

45 mins total is fine for secondary commute

Ignore anyone else you focus on your child not theirs or any misguided ideas that you should only think about a future at xx uni .

Ineedtopaintthedoor · 23/10/2023 09:10

Apologies for not replying sooner.
I took a lot of your advice on board and and we took DS to see the school again in the week last week.

We had a really good look around, saw everything that was going on and spoke to the head, head of Y7, SENDCO and some other teachers.

DS seemed to really like it. He looked comfortable in the environment and was enthused by the number of hands on lessons and outdoors lessons that were happening. We talked about what it was like and how he felt when we were there and also over the weekend. He asked whether he could go there today rather than his normal school. I am taking this as a very good sign.

To answer a couple of earlier questions, no, we can’t move house - we are reliant on the council housing process so we could apply for a move and get one next week or could be waiting 5 years. This is a state school, it’s been open about 10 years and we get a place in the normal way - CAF. A place is likely. They have a wide admissions area and a very slightly undersubscribed. It’s actually quite a large school. They have a 300 PAN but it doesn’t feel like it.

We asked lots of questions, including those around how they fund the curriculum, and the school is managing fine. They are in the black, have been for years and look to remain there for some time.

Later today we will be applying and this is going 1st on the CAF followed by the closest school then one other which I have yet to figure out - I might just put then all in a hat and pull one out.

I have no clue how we will afford transport, but we will make it work. I am currently exploring EHCPs.

Thank you everyone for your advice and support in helping us make this decision.

OP posts: