Struggling to accept our catchment secondary

[RudsyFarmer]

I know I have to get my head around it. I have no choice but to accept it. Does anyone know if it’s possible to add the child’s name to a non catchment secondary waiting list to see if an in-year place comes up?

I still think I daren’t take the risk.

For many people it’s the school they move into the area for. Massively oversubscribed and a huge housing development recently built close by, so it’s only my catchment school by a whisker. I assume if all the people putting it as first choice are as close, if not closer than me distance wise, and I put it as second choice, their first choice child will be placed before my second choice child?

I really want to request to sit on the waiting list of a different school, and see if an in-year place comes up. To do that would I just email them and give details?

No. You are still not getting it.

If you live right next to the school but put it 5th, you would still get given that school (if none of choices 1-4 can offer you) over and above anyone who lives 0.5 miles away but puts it first.

You aren't 'taking a risk' by not putting it first. You are putting down schools in your true order of preference .
Put your local school last if you really aren't keen and fill up other options with schools you prefer.

Please trust this thread and don't shoot yourself and your child in the foot by listening to incorrect rumours

Once allocations are done you will usually go on the waiting list for any school you listed as higher preference. (Though it can vary by authority).

If you are ‘ahead’ of others by the selection criteria you will get a place if you have listed the school.

No no no. Please listen to what people are telling you on here.

Places are allocated in order of the admissions criteria. So if the criteria for the catchment school is distance, it will rank you on distance away from the school regardless of what preference it is on the form.

If a child lives closer than your child, they will get a place ahead of you.
If you live closer, you wil get a place ahead of them.

Whether you or they put the school as first, second or last on the form makes no difference to the allocation.

If you prefer another school put that school top of your list and the catchment school next. As long as you put the catchment school somewhere on the form, you will default to getting a place there.

LEAs vary in how they handle waiting list, but if you name "desired school" first and catchment school second and get allocated a place at catchment school, then in some places your child would automatically be put on a waiting list (in other areas you would have to ask).

You can't do anything now. If you ring the desired school and ask about waiting lists, they will tell you to wait to see if you get offered a place first!

I’m just scared I’m going to fuck it all up and get a school I don’t want more than the one I don’t particularly want 🤣. I feel like the supposed ‘choice’ we have is no choice at all really unless you are lucky enough to live close to a number of undersubscribed schools.

Locally there’s only one school that doesn’t fill up 🔥

I will go and recheck the admission criteria.

The 'equal preference' system is law in England.

They aren't legally allowed to give a place to someone just because they put it first if you meet the criteria better and none of your more preferred schools can offer you a place.

Please do check admission criteria. Then also check previous year admission data for schools you are considering. That will help you get an idea of how likely you are to get any school. e.g. This is the page for Hampshire schools:

here https://www.hants.gov.uk/educationandlearning/admissions/data

For many people it’s the school they move into the area for. Massively oversubscribed and a huge housing development recently built close by, so it’s only my catchment school by a whisker. I assume if all the people putting it as first choice are as close, if not closer than me distance wise, and I put it as second choice, their first choice child will be placed before my second choice child?
You are almost certainly right that people who live closer than you will be higher up the list as this is the commonest thing to determine who gets a place in over subscribed schools. And you may have a legitimate concern about not getting a place if you are quite a long way away. You should be able to find out where the cut off was in previous years which will give you some idea of how likely it is you'd be offered a place, though obviously things do vary year on year.
But either way, where you put the school on your preference list does not influence your likelihood of an offer. If you are close enough to get a place you won't lose it because you made it your third preference, and if you are too far away you won't get one by virtue of making it your first preference. Your preference does not come into it at all, unless when all the applications have been processed you are eligible for places at more than one of your listed schools, in which case you will be offered your higher preference.
It really is that simple. Every year people try to game the system but whatever people tell you, it doesn't work. The people who only list one school and get in, did so because they were high up the criteria and they would have also got that offer if they had filly completed the form. The people who got their first preference did so because they were entitled to it, not because they made someone think they really wanted it by putting it first. Parents get to express their preference but the LEA has to follow the law.

^But either way, where you put the school on your preference list does not influence your likelihood of an offer. If you are close enough to get a place you won't lose it because you made it your third preference, and if you are too far away you won't get one by virtue of making it your first preference. Your preference does not come into it at all, unless when all the applications have been processed you are eligible for places at more than one of your listed schools, in which case you will be offered your higher preference.
It really is that simple^

This.

Thank you 💐

OP, yes read the Admissions Criteria for all the schools you want, but also read the explanation of how your LA allocated schools in your LA website.

The system they operate is law across England.

I can see you feel under pressure because admission to your local school is under pressure due to the new housing. But that school will have to list each and every application in the order they meet the application criteria, whether that was a first or third choice application. They will then give that list to the LA. The LA will check your list, and if none of your higher preferences can offer you a place but your local school can, then they will allocate the local school.

The problem will be if there is so much new housing closer and all those people have applied and like you not got places in other further away schools. But if they live closer, they will get the places before you even if they put it third and you put it first.

The advantage of putting your favourite schools on the form from the outset is because you get two ‘goes’.

Most LAs keep people on waiting lists for every school you preferred to the one you were allocated. Once allocations are made, you get 2 weeks to accept. After this the LA makes a second round of allocations so if you had applied for a favourite school which was filled up, but then 10 places became available because offers weren’t accepted, and your application was one of the next 10 on the list they would offer you the place. Even though you have already accepted the place you were offered.

After all this they usually set a date when they accept ‘late applications’. This is the date you could apply to go on to the waiting list for your favourite schools (if you hadn’t listed them higher up your list) or any other school you wanted to apply to.

But by then you have already missed two chances (however slight) to get your preferred school.

Up to you.

What people are telling you here is what it will say on your LA website about the admissions process.

@RudsyFarmer Please please please please listen to what everyone on this thread is telling you. They are most definitely correct and know what they are talking about. There is no risk- the equal preference system is law across England and will be what is used. List the schools in your genuine order of preference, but it is a good idea to include your catchment school somewhere (or a school that you can be pretty sure you will gain a place at) as a back up. The order that you list the schools in doesn’t come into play at all unless you are able to be offered a place at more than one school you have listed, in which case you will be offered the school you listed higher as everyone can only get one offer. If you put your catchment school first, you are saying that it is your favourite school and you want that school above all others, so even if you can be given a place at the school you actually prefer you won’t get it and will get your catchment school! List your catchment school somewhere on the list and you are taking no risk whatsoever, just saying that you would prefer the schools you have listed above it if there are places available but if not, you’ll take the catchment school.

The equal preference system has been in place in some LAs for more than 20 years (it was the system used when I was applying to secondary in 2002/3) and has been law across England since about 2007. Every year though, there are rumours about schools ‘filling up with 1st preferences’ and it’s no wonder people get confused when even headteachers are claiming a first preference first system! It’s so depressing to think of how many DC have missed out on places at better schools for them because of their parents being misled.

I wonder if the phrase "schools fill up with first choice" is a misunderstanding?

Parents think the school staff who say this are referring to the application form - when in fact they're referring to the priority list of admissions criteria. So what they really mean is, "schools fill up with the applicants who are first on our list - looked-after, staff children , siblings, EHCP, etc"

It's a long shot but it might explain the confusion.

I also wonder if schools say "if you want this school you must make it your first choice" ... because if you don't make it first choice you might get offered a higher preference instead.

Rather than it's mandatory to make it first choice to have any chance of getting in.

I also think this too.

Also, you will be automatically added to the waiting list for any school you apply for in a HIGHER preference than the school you are allocated, but you will not be automatically added to the list for schools you put as a lower preference.

So if you put your catchment school first, you will be offered the place and not aurtomatically added to the waiting list of the school you actually want (you can ask to be added later but if a place comes up before you get added to the list then you'll miss out)

Whereas if you put the school you actually want as first choice, you will either be allocated a place, or be offered a placebin your catchment school but automatically added to the waiting list for better school from day 1.

What you are worried aout happening is illegal. The school's dont get told your preference. They get a list of everyone who's put the school as any choice. One list, which contains people who listed them first as well as people who listed them last. The school ranks everyone on the list and then gives thst ranked list back to the council, who then apply all the preferences.