Do you know how sets are determined at your school?

[SecondaryBefuddled]

In the old days at the end of the year you sat a test and the score for that categorically determined what set you went into for the next year.
To be honest that is how I thought it worked now as well, but I've been advised that there are smaller tests during the whole year and these count too, but are not given a timetable (afaik) for when these tests occur, what weighting they hold or what they will cover. Is it unreasonable for me as a parent to expect that information to be made available/clear to myself or my dc? If you think it is, please could you explain what the downside of it would be? What does your school do?

Yr 7 sets based on results of entrance exam for initial sets and then reviewed/changed after formal tesrs at Christmas. After Yr 7 judged on either the Christmas or Summer exams.

They review the sets (just for STEM subjects) every half term. Its not just pure score on the test... its work ethic too.... messing around, not doing homework and a lower score might mean moving down a set, but just a one off bad score won't.

Ours are officially not settled. Except they are really. The idea is that no good can come from knowing you are in bottom set rather than "one of the lower sets", or third set rather than "one of the higher sets".

I would expect teachers to use their judgement when setting - some kids do better put up a bit to stretch them, others do better as a bigger fish in a lower set. I am inclined to leave it to the teachers' expertise rather than demanding, and policing, one identikit algorithm for all.

Only set for maths.
There is movement each term depending on various things - test results, work in class, effort and engagement. To some degree it's teacher's discretion - there is overlap in sets and some children might work better at the top end of a lower set than the bottom end of a higher set.

I dont know and to be honest I don't care. As long as my child is happy and in a set that roughly seems to equate to their ability then jobs a good'en. I expect them to try their best at all their work and all tests wether they know they are used to determine sets or not.

Set for pretty much every subject.

Mix of test results, CAT scores, SEN, friendships, conflicts, teacher's instinct, overall class cohesion from what I can work out.

Seems to be about 20 sets for the main subjects (over 400 in a year groups) so plenty of scope to fine tune things.

School have never discussed how they do it, but there have been discussions when they've felt a particular set is the wrong one and why they are moving DC (not that they say top set or set 6 or anything like that - but the kids all know who the really brainy ones are with the top marks and can work it out).

My view is as long as DD is happy, likes the teacher, has a friend to sit with, and says it's the right pace for her then I don't much care if she's in set 1 or set 10... only time I would see it as an issue is if it affects doing a higher level or a foundation paper for GCSE.

Teachers use their judgement on who is in which set based on work in class and tests and end of year tests.
Some children do better near the top of a lower set, some do better near the bottom of a higher set. This is both from a confidence thing and a pace of learning.

You as a parent don't need to know the ins and outs.

Children will always be told if they are having a test so they can prep for it.

It isn't a formula where you plug things in and a set pops out. i is professional judgement.

DS’ school set for maths, English and triple science at the start of y10. The pupils are in the same set for all of those subjects, and the set they’re in is only based on their maths performance. I find it incredibly odd. DS is in the bottom set (academic independent school) and apparently is on track to get two 9s for english. Not that I think he will, but that’s another story.

It is an overall judgement based on a range of information which will include assessment data but also takes into account gender balance, relationships (both positive and negative) etc etc.

I did once work in a school where the head of Maths would rank every child in the year after the half-termly assessment and change the sets accordingly every. half. term. Frankly it was a bloody nightmare.

Our school sets extensively and early on. It's done on end of year exam score, consistency of work and tests throughout the year, and general work ethic. So as a PP said, if you do badly on the end of year exam, you can still stay in a top set on the basis of a good attitude and general consistent high performance.

If you’re asking what weighting is given to topic tests over longer assessments you might be thinking about it being a bit more of a science than it is.

Assessments plus teacher judgement is a normal method where teacher judgement is more holistic.

Thanks for the replies so far. I've asked a relative who is also a teacher and they think it is odd. Child does not excel in many things at school, generally above average but not superstar, but one subject they have completely smashed it throughout the year getting one of the highest marks in the exams in the whole year and excellent feedback from that years teacher about how their work is beyond expected for their class throughout the year. All child's friends are above them setwise in this subject despite them doing worse in the exams and expectation was after such a year child would move to join them, but inspite of that they haven't moved them and they are still about halfway down the sets for the year (big year entry so makes a huge difference). This has massively upset the child as I can't give them an explanation why and an understanding of how to be seen to improve in order to move up.

Can your dd ask? My dd was consistently getting one of the top scores in set 2 maths so asked her teacher about moving to set 1. Her teacher agreed that her work was consistently set 1 standard and she moved up. She knew logically that she had every chance of getting too grades in set 2 but she's very competitive and confident in maths so wanted to move even though she really liked the set 2 teacher.

There won't be a set formula like weighting and dates. I'm just a parent but assessments seemed to happen when the topic finished or every half term ish and they are looking for consistency over time.

Does your dd lack confidence despite her high achievement ? Some kids do better being top of the lower set than bottom of the higher set.

It would be perfectly fine to contact the form tutor or head of year and ask them to look into it.

In addition to the criteria described by pp numbers are a consideration, as top sets tend to be the biggest. We generally can’t seat more than 32 in our classrooms and having more than this would be an unreasonable marking load, especially for an essay-based subject.

Also some subjects are set together. e.g. Your maths set may determine your science set. This can happen for timetabling purposes if the whole year group / band doesn't have the same subjects at the same time.

Some schools set by subject, as a pp has said other schools set in groups eg maths and science together, some schools still stream - that is that overall ability dictates what set you are in for everything.

Your school should have a curriculum statement on their website which covers what they do and how they do it.

Ours were not just setted for attainment but also effort and input needed. So even if a child was achieving well in their set and not moving to a different one it might be because they are finally settled and are with a teacher in a class that is targeted approppriately for their needs- which allowed them to improve their grade. Or other sets have more students and they would struggle with less attention or a more independent study style of teaching, or they are chatty and disruptive so better suited to a teacher with better behaviour management.
Our top sets were often given to NQTs as they are the easiest students to teach.

My son was usually in set 1 for everything and moved to set 2 for maths in year 9 the pace was calmer, there was less pressure (the teacher was less scary and intense) and he learnt more, got better grades and was more confident than he had been since he moved to secondary school he stayed in set 2 until he left school with an A.
It's a shame when top sets are seen as a prize for good grades, like its a bad thing to be in a lower set- kids have different support needs and in a school with 5 or 6 sets, the difference in attainment between 1 and 2 or 4 and 5 is often tiny and there will be significant overlap in attainment. The highest performing kids in set 2 will do better than the some of set 1, the sets are still appropriate.

It can also be affected by the actual process of writing timetables.

Your friend who is a teacher is probably not the person responsible for building the timetable - it may be that moving set for that one subject completely messes up all of the other subject settings and your DC would be inappropriately placed in classes where they would struggle or be bored witless.

Why don't you ask the form tutor or head of year for the reasoning? How do you know their result was one of the highest in the year? I havent got a clue where DS sits amongst his peers in terms of exam results and neither should I as it doesn't actually matter.

The form tutor or head of year won't know. Ask the subject leader.

Subjects can be paired so a great grade in science and a lower grade in English means you won't be moved up if they are paired. Some lessons do end of unit tests with a move once a term depending on those results.

Setting can be done for social reasons too, keeping friends together / not moving a more vulnerable child up if they have no friends in that group. To keep students apart if there have been friendship issues or bullying. To keep an even sex split instead of being boy or girl heavy. It could be to build confidence, being top of a lower group that goes at a slower pace is better for many than being bottom of a faster paced group.

Sometimes the more able and nurture groups will be set specifically with the others as mixed ability.

@BoohooWoohoo thanks, the child would be over the moon to move up and be with their friends and be part of the friendship group they were part of. They are not in any sets with any of their original friendship group and this was one of the reasons the child was hoping they would move up in this subject as they have felt not part of that group for awhile as they share no lessons so don't chat about what has gone on etc
@Hellocatshome thanks, but I would be surprised if your child didn't compare their assessment scores with their friends. The child was so proud that they had done so well they told me. Maybe you have no interest in how your child does for whatever reason, but this child is not your child.
@NeverDropYourMooncup thanks I hadn't considered timetabling.
@Houselamp Thanks for the reassurance that the set does not necessarily reflect outcome.
@Singleandproud thanks, I have queried the possibility of linking and that isn't the reason. There are other sets between the one the child is in and the top set.

@SecondaryBefuddled well no he doesn't actually but even if your child has compared scores with their friends they are surely not friends with the whole year group to know it was one of the best scores in the year.

Either way you snapping at randoms on the Internet isn't helping you find out why your child is in the set they are in. The only way you can do this is talk to someone at the school.

They knew what the top mark in the year was.