Massive regret that I didn’t try and get my ds into a sixth form rather college

[Teencrisis]

DS has just started college to study a-levels. His grades were not good enough to continue his studies at his grammar school. If he was at school still he would be required to be on site every day from 9:00 - 3:20. He would be required to take part in sports etc. Now he is at college he has so much time when he is not at college he is already loosing motivation and some days because he doesn’t need to be into 2:30 he lounges around or just meets up with friends. I can’t persuade him to study. I know he needs to become disciplined but I can’t help thinking if he was at school he would have no option but to study. I wish now that I had looked at other local school sixth forms. Anyone else have this problem? I just feel that there is a massive difference and somehow sixth forms students have an advantage.

This is complete bullshit, I'm afraid.

My kids have all been to FE college rather than sixth form as none of them are academic. Two are there currently. I think once assignments and projects kick in your DS will be working harder. My DD has been "off college" all day today but has been at home working on a project due in tomorrow. DS who has only just started hasn't done much yet but I think that will change and the pace of work will pick up.

Could your DS get a job/do work experince/volunteering one day per week which could give him useful experience and get him out of the house?

Are A-levels the right choice for him? What does he want to do after college? Because at some point he will have to grow up and become motivated. Even if he manages to get into uni do you think he would cope with the freedom there? Loads of people dropped out in my first year, it isn't for everyone. And tbh with the fees and job market now I do think apprenticeships are the smartest option for most.

Fully understand what you mean OP. My DD left her secondary school after GCSEs to do her A-levels at a college 10 miles away. After a week or so we all realised (including her) what a mistake that was. In the sixth form of her old secondary school the students have to be in by 8.45 and stay until 15.00. Even if they only have one lesson that day. Their free time has to be spent on site doing homework, enrichment or some other form of activity. At the college she started at, Fridays were the only days she would be in all day, all the other days the lessons were here, there and everywhere. Even with a DD who has always done her homework/studying without me having to remind her, there is no way that at the age of 16 she would have the self-discipline to utilise her day properly if she only has one lesson that day for example. I know I wouldn’t have.
So at the end of last week I emailed the head of sixth form from her old school and she started back there the next day, literally. Also, the pastoral support they get during their free time is invaluable in my opinion.

I should imagine the transition from the structure of grammar to a college can see many young people slacking off when they first start, but it's early days..Is he unhappy? Would he entertain going to a 6rh Form?

DS2 said they've had 10 or so start within the last week, who'd tried elsewhere but got whatever reason it didn't work out. His is an under-subscribed 6th Form. There's no compulsory sports, he has a few free periods, but does his homework then, though can go off-site if he wants.

This is why DD1 didn't move from her Grammar to a college. The change from a Grammar to a college was just too unstructured for her at that age and it would have been a bad choice.

For you OP, maybe phone around the local sixth forms and see if they have places available. And also ask your DS if he'd be willing to go into a sixth form rather than a college.

On the flip side, if he CAN develop his own motivation and work ethic he'll be in a great place to go on to uni, an apprenticeship or work after 18.

That's not true actually. Schools can (and in fact should) set minimum requirements for A level study. At my kids' (bog standard) comp you need to gain 6s in your A level choices and 5s in English and maths. There is some leeway for individual cases, but if a student gained 3s and 4s then they would not be allowed to stay as the school only offers A levels, and those grades would not be suitable.

OP I would echo others - sixth formers will need to learn to make use of their frees, whether they are at college or school. Many take some time to realise this; self-study is supposed to be a large part of the A level course, as there is no way enough can be taught in five hours a week per subject.

Many students find college a useful stepping stone towards university of indepedent adult life.

What subjects does your ds study? How did he do in those GCSEs?

Even with an EHCP, post 16 providers can still insist on entry levels and its very unlikely an LA would try and force the matter, though they can sometimes help negotiate lower requirements. DS1s school did lower theirs (he has an EHCP) and the LA bribed them offered up additional funding, but he went elsewhere. Just as well as he didn't meet the requirements.

Ah sorry @NoMor I just saw your update.

@Teencrisis would there be sixth forms he could go to? I agree you need to be on site all day, but it's still more than possible not to do very much in that time, IME.

DS is at 6th form doing a levels and has 3 full days 9-4 and 2 half days starting at 130 and finishing at 130. Also does self study every evening. However no grammar schools and very few school 6th forms in our county. His school had no 6th form.

I think you're unrealistic about what 6th form is like at grammar school. My DS has to be in 15 hours a week. No compulsory sport.He goes in late a couple of days and is done by lunch on the others. And seems to be spending his time playing Fortnite the rest of the time as far as I can see

My DS (at Sixth form) was looking forward to hopping out at lunchtime and sleeping in for his morning study periods much to my consternation!
However, the school has become very strict about this and they are not allowed off site during the day.
Seems to vary between schools - if you have a lot of self-motivated kids, you can cut them more slack. DS school is a mixed comp, so I imagine he was not the only one looking forward to all the "free" time!
His friends at college only go in three days a week - this would not have worked for DS.

We have the opposite problem. DD had no choice but to stay at school, but she hates it, she struggles with being treated like a 5yr old. They have lots of petty dress code rules ( worse than when they were in uniform), detentions for ridiculous things. Teachers very preoccupied with lower years, cramped noisy study areas where it is difficult to study, but they are not allowed to study elsewhere or wear headphones. Additional activities forced on them (unfortunately, not sport). She is very motivated and is finding it very difficult.

Definitely worth looking round and seeing what his other options are. It's not too late to switch.

Mine needs to take a college bus to college so she is forced to be there most of the day, every day. She can wander into town if she wants but that is no different to if she were at school still.

@MorvernBlack why does your daughter have no choice? 6th Form isn't compulsory. She doesn't have to be there unless she wants to be.

Surely at his age, it's his choice anyway, so no need to beat yourself up about it.

And I'm not sure that all school sixth forms are quite as you imagine anyway. DD went to a school sixth form, and I must admit, it was my preference over the college though it was obviously her choice. One of the things that she was worried about initially was that the school might be too "schooly", but in the end, she was free to come and go in her free periods and that aspect of it wasn't any different from the college. Nobody made them study... the expectation was that they would manage it by themselves at that age.

Where the school did exceed what was offered by the local college was with uni application help. I also think the overall standard of teaching was probably better. But in terms of freedom, independence and being treated like a responsible adult, dd was relieved to find that there wasn't much to choose between them. Of course, some schools will be pushier, but my point is that it isn't simply a school/college divide.

The colleges in my area don't offer A Levels anymore, DS2 could have gone to another school 6th Form, but the journeys weren't appealing (we're semi-rural and public transport is unreliable). He had no interest in anything besides A Levels and the colleges are also crap journeys.
I really do not like his school as they are awful in many, many ways, but it was there or nowhere so 🤷

Its still only September OP. Is he happy or does he want to move? There should still be availability at 6th forms if he does want to go somewhere different. Whilst its not the same scenario, there are kids that changed subject just this week in my sons 6th form.

My dd has just started second year at a college because she wanted a specialist vocational course rather than A-levels. Compared to her friends who stayed at the grammar school sixth form she does have more free time/less work, less hours in college etc. The other big difference is college don't really communicate with parents much compared to school. They expect students to take responsibility for themselves much more which can be a steep learning curve for kids and parents! But the tutors have been very responsive when I have asked them questions etc. So for OP I would suggest you get involved and make sure you know what he should be doing so you can chase him up on it.

I totally agree, my DD moved to a private sixth form of a school with lots of boarding although she's a day girl. What I like is that although she has free time, they keep her really busy. There's sports twice a week, they are expected to get involved in the extra curricular stuff, there's a strong house system where the year 12 & 13's have to organise lots of things and play a full part in school life including compulsary tours of the school for prospective parents. Whilst I also find some of the rules ridiculous for 17=18 year olds I have no regrets at all. She'll sometimes ask me to get her at about 3pm instead of finish time which is later but it means she is out and occupied 5 days a week even if she spends time lying on the sofa in her house making toast and sleeping on the sofa with her friends during free periods.

Maybe there are no alternatives in their area? Not everywhere has a wide choice of sixth forms and/or colleges.

DD is in sixth form. Her schedule varies widely. Most days finished by noon or not starting until 1:30. So depending on the sixth form it might have been same as college.

From DD’s friends the only ones who don’t have part time schedules in both sixth form and college are those who are doing vocational courses on one single subject/trade/etc.

You can still swap - some of DS friends have last week from school sixth from to college.

Sixth form here they aren't in all day - they go back and forth during the day and then have to travel to other sites for some lessons one of which is currently closed to them due to building work over running.

DS very glad to be away from the school - seems a bit unsettled round eating lunch but rest he seems fine with even getting bus in and out.

I have had lots of talks with DS about how especially with his math heavy subject he need to hit the ground running - TBF seems to have worked. I think DD1 was slow to settle partly thanks to covid and that did count against her.

It's the only place locally that does the A levels she wants, she doesn't want online after Covid, so she pretty much has to get on with it.