Is an GCSE English Language resit worth it for a mathematician?

[Bigcoatweather]

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this situation.

DD is a genuinely spectacular mathematician and wants to study maths or computers at Uni. Has started A levels in Maths, Further Maths, Computing and a fourth A Level in a MFL.

She got great GCSE results apart from one totally unexpected Grade 5 in English language, below expectations. This apparently means that despite her amazing skills in maths and computers, she won't be eligible for somewhere like Imperial (she'd rather had her heart set on it, even though I didn't) or Oxbridge (who say they have no specific GCSE requirements but they may be looked at for context). I think what adds to the pain is that other students who are not as strong at maths as she is are not having this issue because they got a higher English result - it smarts a bit.

She has been offered a resit in about four weeks time, meaning if she does go ahead, I'll have to find a tutor to help in addition to her other A level work commitments and DoE. Resit grades have to be declared on UCAS.

My fear is that it seems like a gamble - school are encouraging it (it is a competitive school, so they would), but I'm personally not sure it's worth the risk. English marking was weird this year, so if she gets the same or lower, doesn't that look even worse? 5 is still a pass.
I'm inclined to recommend she doesn't resit and live with the Grade 5. If she manages to get stellar A levels, maths pre-test results, good extra-curricular activities etc....are Oxbridge really not going to consider her based on English Language, so we shouldn't waste a Uni choice?

Curious if you were in my shoes, what would you encourage?

You know your daughter best. If you are confident that the grade 5 doesn’t really fit with her performance at school during year 11 and that she was capable of better, encourage her to resit. What does your daughter think?

I would encourage a resit

@Bigcoatweather It isn't just Oxbridge, lots of top universities want a grade 6 or above in English lang even for STEM courses.

If her result was unusual I don't know why you wouldn't want her to resit it. Do you know why she performed at a grade 5? Has a staff member seen her paper? As all the knowledge is relatively fresh in her head I would get her to resit.

What exam board is it? Past papers online with the mark scheme may help her understand what they can award marks for. The narrative/creative writing she can prepare in advance for, have good descriptors for either people, or locations; Ds's school made them do a room in a house, a forest, a street etc, weather or a season.

You want her uni application to be as competitive as possible. She needs a 6 if they say she needs a 6. Ds follows some chap who got into Cambridge on 4 A stars and even he had to prove he had a 6 in English Lang.

How far was she from the next grade, would a review of marking of her paper be a consideration?

@Bigcoatweather , there is an almost identical thread in the Further Education section where I have posted and added @noblegiraffe's graphs showing the crazy Eng Lang grade allocation this year.
First of all review the papers and enter for a marking review and then book the resit. Your dd isn't the only person in this position, there are many!!!

The thread is called "will GCSE result affect uni application?

If she was predicted much higher and/or was very close to gaining a grade 6 then a retake could be done without too much work. What are her thoughts?
As an aside - You mention DofE - please don’t assume universities care about extra-curricular. She needs to be doing things like DofE for her own growth, development and enjoyment.

Ds got offers for maths at cambridge Warwick Durham Bath and can't remember the 5th with a c in English language

I would look at the requirements are for the universities your DD wants to apply to and take it from there.

Agree with @NotDonna - a 6 in eng lang will carry a lot more weight with Imperial or LSE than a gold DofE.

Nothing wrong with doing DofE if you love that sort of thing; but don't be fooled into thinking that doing it will gain you a university place.

Unis care about A level grades, enthusiasm for and knowledge of proposed subject of study (as evidenced in the PS), reference from the school and GCSE grades. And not all of them care about all of those.

English Language GCSE is essential for all uni applications and if she wants to do something like teaching after uni, she will need a high enough English Language GCSE to get onto the PGCE. Some grad schemes require it as well.
This really is the most important GCSE alongside maths GCSE, she needs to fix it now or she will have to waste time doing it later to get anywhere with a great many things.

As context, I got a D in GCSE maths (3 marks off a C) and missed the resit, so to go to a good uni, I had to take GCSE maths alongside my A-levels. I got a B, and forever after, whenever application forms need "date passed" it's a year later than the rest of my GCSEs, so it's obvious to anyone and everyone that I didn't get it the first time around.

The requirement for GCSE English and Maths usually isn't stated on the course page on the university's website where you'll see what A-level grades you need, it's mentioned instead in the "general entry requirements" which are often listed separately.

I strongly recommend you take the resit.

Wait I've just realised you said she'd got a 5, not that she needs a 5. In which case I probably wouldn't worry unless you think she needs to get significantly higher when you take a look at the general entry requirements for her preferred universities.

She should resit it.

I teach a humanities subject at an Oxbridge college in which maths is of no direct relevance at all, but we would be very uneasy about admitting someone with a 5 or 6 in Maths. It looks either like very poor exam technique or a lack of general intelligence. Given that DD has a very bright academic future ahead of her, this is an unnecessary but major blot on her school record.

The tenacity required to resit the exam would also impress me, provided she did substantially better next time. In other words I wouldn't resit for a 6 (because that's also a worryingly low grade compared to the other applicants), but for a 7 or more it's a very good idea.

Review the paper first. Contact the school to say you want access to scripts; a teacher should be able to look at these and advise. Then request a review, which may only be of one paper. If she is planning to resit, she has nothing to lose by reviewing one or more of the papers. There are some very unusual results this year.

I would resit, it is only in a few weeks and won’t impact on a level studying later on. It really widens her options for higher education given she is very able in most other domains. Perhaps consider extra tuition twice weekly or similar just for the next month to make sure it is worth it!

Definitely re-sit, especially if the 5 was unexpected. English Language is so random- I've known kids get consistent 7s all through Yr 11,incluidng mocks, then come out with a 4 in the summer, only to re-sit back up to a 7.

My DS is the same. 9 in maths and 5 in English. What were her marks. He was 3 of a 6 so gone for a review.
I've looked at unis. Think only LSE are fussy and not recommending he goes to London anyway.
Some want a 6 in lang or lit so we are ok there as did well in lit.
Otherwise he'll just have to roll with it. He got good results in everything else, including essay subjects so he can write.

What did she get in English Literature?

A grade 5 is high enough for teacher training

Definitely resit. If you get the paper reviewed, it will likely only go up to a 6 if it does move. Look at the papers and target areas of weakness. If it's AQA, students can lose significant marks on the writing sections that cost 2 or even 3 grades. A targeted approach to both 40 mark questions could really pay dividends.

I'd review. We've had a 6 go up to an 8. I'm surprised this wasn't recommended. It may be too late though. I'd definitely resit. It will also impact upon opportunities after university.

First of all, school won’t benefit from an enhanced grade from a resit (unlike a remark) so they are encouraging it from a place of kindness and knowledge that DD can do better.

Secondly, English Language is a skills based subject so revision is minimal. As a PP said, get her to check the requirements for the two writing sections. Adding a range of paragraph lengths, sentence openings/structures and varying punctuation can have a huge impact on the marks. If she’s a maths whizz, she’s clearly clever so it will be some minor tweaking needed for a significantly higher grade, I’d imagine.

I don't know for sure what it's like now but 20+ years ago when all this was green fields and I was at school, you didn't have to declare your lower mark on UCAS forms if you took the same qualification twice, so if the grade on the retake was lower, it didn't matter.

I find this a weird attitude. If someone got all 8s and 9s but a 5 or 6 in maths which as you say is in no way related to your humanities subject, that they were lacking in general intelligence seems a very strange and flawed conclusion. If their sciences were all 8s & 9s I'd assume they just messed up the paper. I'd look at everything else in their application.

@anomaly2

We do look at everything in the application, I promise you!

But the standards are extremely high. About half of the applicants have perfect scores (only 9s) at GCSE. The others might have some 7s or 8s. I have never admitted anyone with a 6 or below in any subject, but that's because very few people with those grades apply and, of those who do, most won't make it to the interview.

If someone had a 5 in any GCSE it would be a bit of an issue in the application, even if everything else was outstanding. On the margin, it would cost an applicant a place, so I think it's worth resitting if DD really underperformed on the day and was disappointed in her result.

I do t think your experience is that relevant to a maths degree.Maths is a curious subject where A level success is not a good predictor of degree performance. In Competitive maths courses the 'decider' is really the additional entry test eg ( for Cambridge) STEP. The really gifted mathematicians are often not great across the board.