Old Palace School bursaries

[Autumnchills]

I noticed that Old Palace School have said on their website that they are not offering any bursaries for Sept 24 entry. Does anyone know why?? Their bursaries are funded by the Whitgift Foundation. The Foundation is still providing bursaries for Trinity and Whitgift, what gives? 🤔

I find it hard to understand why they have not made a proposal to use Whitgift or Trinity facilities, and at least move one of them Co-ed

Both Trinity and Whitgift are over subscribed. I don't see how either could have gone fully Co-Ed TBH. Both DSs went to Trinity and I would have loved DD to have been able to go there though.

I was totally shocked by the news of Old Palace closing. I don't really know what else they were meant to do though. It had no scope for expansion/improvement given the limitations of the site (the site is what put us off the school when looking for DD).

Developers will be all over the Croham Hurst site. It's ripe for development into housing.

@Meleena - I'm so sorry - it must be a terrible shock. I suspect a number of teachers will look to move at the end of the current academic year so probably OK for your daughter but not great for the current years 10 and 12.

Thank you and agreed, although I was aware that the academic standard at OP had declined, it was a total shock to learn that they were closing down. Tbh it isn't great for any of the pupils nor the teachers.

I suspect we are going to see quite a few independent schools closing in the next few years and dodgy real estate deals happening. It really requires proper regulation. And as people have said, why not turn them into state schools, if feasible. In this particular case, the buildings may not be fit for state education but who knows. The government should really not be sitting back and letting stuff like this just happen.

The birth rate is dropping in central London and Greater London, this is impacting the state sector as much as the private sector with preps taking the hit at the moment but under subscribed secondaries can see the future too. There is no need for the state to ask academics to take over any private schools in the SE.

Not far from me. Its a bit sad seeing the new reception starters on the prep website. Their parents have probably gone from feeling proud of their new starter to feeling a bit gutted within a couple of weeks.

So sad. I think cost of living really hitting home now so less parents willing/able to pay school fees.
Also there are several girls grammars in the area so perhaps parents focusing on those.
I always thought grammar and private ed were more similar for girls than boys as boys private schools often had massive amounts of sports teams which girls are sometimes less interested in.
Girls I know who went private often did it for the academics which other schools can do better than OP.

Interesting dive into the Whitgift FOundation's financials and statments on Old Palace in recent years. As I said in a previous post most of this is to do with the disaster of the Foundation's non-deal with Westfield and not with OP per se although they've done a pretty good job in treating the girls as second class citizens since they took it over. Now the girls are being thrown under a tram to cover the financial black hole so that the boys don't suffer. https://insidecroydon.com/2023/09/22/old-palace-closure-brought-on-by-shaky-foundation-finances/

Do the Whitgift foundation rent out Croydon shops? A lot seem to have closed down. It must have been a lot more profitable in the past. Even Wilko never opened there.
When Commonweal closed I know Sutton took in girls and bussed them there. I guess the options are St Davids and Croydon for prep? Probably others.

I gather that the boys at Whitgift and Trinity have had a letter this weekend telling them that they have nothing to worry about - ie its just the girls who'll suffer for the Foundation's financial incompetence. Very telling comment on the OP Facebook page that the boys at Whitgift get to keep their flamingos and wallabies whilst the girls lose their school.

It's a mess if some shops were forcibly closed to make way for Westfield.

It's frustrating that the accounts lack the details of costs/income for each school

This is very sad news.

Why has OP become so unpopular? I read it had 900 girls in 2019 but it's down to 600 now. It can't just be birthrate because lots of other independent schools are doing well.

Is it fair that Whitgift has peacocks in the grounds and OP has to close?

Is it fair that Whitgift has peacocks in the grounds and OP has to close?

No but they've been consntent in treating the girls as second class citizens. Now they are support humans for the boys as their school is being chucked under the bus to raise funds to ensure that the financial hit the FOundation took over Westfield does not impact on the boys in any shape or form.

Its a disgrace and IMO the entire court of govenors should be debarred from acting as trustees or directors ever again.

From what I’m hearing OP was not financially viable as a school, even with bursary support from the Whitgift Foundation, while the others were. Obviously if they are under capacity by up to 300 pupils that’s a huge loss of fees with the same overheads as the other schools. I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that the Whitgift Foundation just didn’t want to fund them in the way they are funding the others. I think it’s more significant to focus on why they were unable to fill their places, I would really like to know which year groups were under capacity and why that might be. As far as I’m aware (and maybe someone can check), nearby Croydon High is doing fine and not lacking in numbers. Also, what has changed between 2019 and now? Did the results take a downward turn between say the prior 3 yrs and was that enough to put off a significant set of would-be parents? Is it because the Croydon town-centre has become more depressing and rundown over that period which put off parents and children? Is it the prep school that is putting a drag on things due to the shrinking population and people leaving London during the pandemic? Did the opening of two new co-ed state schools nearby in the past few years make a difference or do they operate in entirely different markets? Is single sex education falling out of favour more broadly and the boys schools are sheltered from that due to other factors - exam performance/tradition/being seen as more prestigious etc?

Student numbers in 2019 were approx 725, including nearly 100 for nursery and just under that for prep. So the 608 now reported looks very similar. Still below planned by a lot.

I think the scandalous way Croydon town centre has been left to rot by the corrupt and bankrupt planning department must have played a part here. Whitgift is in S Croydon and Trinity in Shirley and both can be reached without much interaction with the central part of Croydon. I mean who would want to send their kids there every day? I find it depressing going there myself now after previously been a big supporter of Croydon town centre as a place. It's terrible how it's been left to decay and turn into a lawless dump. Even at T and W kids are hassled on buses.and mugged for airpods and iPhones on a regular basis. I can't see the appeal now of sending young girls into that for a school that maybe is no longer up there academically. I hope the girls all get sorted at other schools soon.

Croydon is meant to be “up and coming”…
I think the exact location of a private school is quite important to some parents, including how safe it is directly next to the school, what shops/restaurants etc are nearby and if there is a nice feel. I don’t think many people rich enough to afford private school choose to live in Central Croydon? And the richer lot out in eg Purley/Sanderstead etc will more likely send their girls to Waldingham or other Surrey schools and Wimbledon lot to a more local GDST school or other private school.

Exact location really does matter for a private school and that is not something that can be changed. GDST is also a big brand for girls schools. It’s interesting that people are having a go at the Whitgift Foundation, I doubt any trustee would do anything without relying on what some professional adviser has told them in writing. They will have covered themselves and they have insurance. So unless you can prove fraud/bad faith, nothing can be done.

A big problem lots of girls schools are facing is that a lot of the brightest, most confident girls only stay until GCSEs, do really well and then want co-ed in the Sixth Form. Lots of boys schools have cottoned on to this and made their Sixth Forms co-ed snapping up exactly those girls.
It then artificially bumps up the A level league tables of a lot of schools that are only co-ed in the Sixth Form. We are seeing this phenomenon in a lot of private schools and even some state grammars.
The co-ed Sixth Forms can then offer more A level choices as well etc and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The stellar A level results then ensure the reputation of those schools and make sure the places further down in the schools are filled.
The girls schools are stupid not to compete and also admit boys in the Sixth Form.

I think that's very true about girls in sixth form, it certainly dragged my son up to their higher standards. You're right, the girls schools are missing a trick. An dthe boys sixth forms are tough to get into now, especially as they're competing against the really bright girls, so more sixth form provision locally for the boys would be well subscribed I think.

Central Croydon was meant to be up and coming. And at one point, it actually was. Sadly though, it never happened due to (very provable and evidenced) mis managememt by the now bankrupt local council, and it really now is way worse than it was 10 years ago. Extremely depressing and run down.

I'm sure it will improve at some point. It has to with the development and the transport links, but not in the timescales for girls starting school now.

I think it’s a bit simplistic to say that the Whitgift Foundation just didn’t want to fund them in the way they are funding the others.

the £1billion shopping revamp property punt 12 years ago that blew up in their faces and burnt a big hole in their finances and the girls school closes?

The Foundation have owned the Whitgift school since 1600, they owned Old palace since 1993....guess which one closes?

Old Palace was always a local school in an unfashionable area, next to places like West Croydon Thornton Heath that many wealthy SW London parents would run a mile. Whitgift took a gamble they could get the daughters of the Whitgift crowd and they expanded the school massively with the leafy Melville Rd site, over the road from the Whitgift sports club, it didn't work which anyone could have told them wouldn't.

So you had the same crowd but a much bigger site , with some girls attending the Prep, their parents not dreaming of sending them to the main site (My friend was one who was aiming for Wallington or Croydon High at 11+, but was happy with the huge space her DD had at the Prep.

Pre- Whitgift , this would have never happened, as you chose the main site or didn't choose the school at all.

Old Palace's results were diluted after it merged with the non-selective Melville Rd school, (Whitgifts idea) which was the final nail in the coffin.

Would the school have closed in 1993 if Whitgift didn't buy it?
Why was it for sale?

I don't think it was 'for sale', rather it got swallowed, (from what I heard) like countless other private school by various quangos, trusts, and private equities.

I really don't think it would have closed if it had stayed on the one site and not expanded, but its true the bankrupt council, the bodged redevelopment of Whitgift centre and Westfield which closed many shops and killed off the shopping centre, none of these things have helped, so who knows?

The only development in the centre has been the building of 1000's of luxury flats designed for singles and couples and bars and eating in Boxpark to entertain them. (something that is happening all over London).

I do believe Old Palace had an important role in the much 'uglier' north of Croydon in providing local girls a first class education, there's nothing to replace it, which is sad.

The real issue with OP is that it provided a good education to a lot of girls in really awful circumstances - far less the case with the boys at Whitgift and Trinity living in the leafy suburbs. For many of these girls OP was the point of stability in their chaotic lives and now the rug has been pulled from under their feet. If Whitgift cared about these girls they'd academise the school.