Is school allowed to ask these questions on application form?!

[CapturedLeprechaun]

So I apply to my local authority for my child's secondary school place. One of the schools we are applying to is an incredibly oversubscribed grammar school, but we would definitely get in on distance based on the last 5 years results.

The grammar school (which is NOT a faith school) asks you to submit a Supplementary Information Form to them, asking questions such as

• do you own or rent your house
• if you own, when was it purchased
• if you rent, when does your tenancy start and end.

Surely they can't ask this?! They have a FAQ section that says "what happens if I only fill in the local authority CAF form and do not complete the schools SIF form?
Answer: we will not know about your application until December, and this may result in a delay to your application, particularly if we need to carry out address checks. If we need to carry out address checks, this will almost certainly delay your application being confirmed to us by the local authority".

Surely this isn't legal? You apply to your local authority and THEY confirm your address based on the proofs you provide/their council tax systems etc. Surely the school are overstepping asking you to confirm if you rent or own directly to them.

I rent - we have lived here for 8 years. I do not own any properties. So my only objection to this information is a moral one, I don't believe the school have a right to this information so I begrudge providing it.

They’re trying to weed out the ones renting in catchment for a school place.
We had to produce all sorts of stuff like council tax bills for the preceding two years, etc

It's to make sure you aren't using an address to make it look like you're in the catchment area.

I think this is a good thing.

Too many people have such a sense if entitlement that they will take extreme lengths to get their kids into the school they want.

If you have been there for a long time, you will have nothing to worry about.

You are perfectly entitled to not answer the question and the school has made clear in the FAQs what the possible consequences are. Given you have told Mumsnet your housing situation I’m not sure what the moral objection is but if you have one then good luck.

It's to stop residence fraud

At our school we have parents that will claim to live at the grandparents house in order to get their child into the school 🙄 we live in an area with very good schools all around so this feels so unnecessary

If you've rented there for I years then you've got nothing to worry about. Just fill the form in and do your child a favour! There's been enough threads on Mumsnet over the years about people giving 'false' addresses on school applications just to get into their chosen school.

Rented for 8 years

It's good. Some near me rented Airbnbs to get in the catchment!

It's just to stop admissions shenanigans - if you've been living there for 8 years you're fine. It's to stop your child losing their place to someone who is not truly living in the catchment area.

A grammar school is almost certainly it's own admissions authority, so it is responsible for its own admissions. You apply centrally to ensure coordination of offers, but it is up to the school to list applicants in order. The LA will support this with council tax checks, but the school are within their rights to request more/different evidence.

They are, as others have said, trying to avoid applicants using addresses of convenience to get a place. Several sought after grammars have introduced rules about how long you need to have lived in the area before you apply, how long rental agreements need to be, and on how they will treat other owned properties in the application process should you own one and rent another.

Yes, it’s good they’re asking these questions, it’s to stop people renting/buying in the area short-term/last minute when they don’t actually live there, or intend to live there long term, only to get a place.

Stops the cheats

There's been enough threads on Mumsnet over the years about people giving 'false' addresses on school applications just to get into their chosen school.

Including a very recent one by someone contemplating sort term rental of a property owned by a relative. I don't know whether it's scary how many responses indicate that the poster considers address fraud to be perfectly acceptable, or heartening that these people are so relaxed about the possibility that someone committing it could (obvious corollary) disadvantage their own DC by committing it?

It would seem in everyone’s interest if the school are trying to stop people from playing the system regarding housing.
No one can force you answer the questions OP but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t.

Ok, I'll fill in the SIF then! I knew the admissions code has lots of "you must NOT ask any questions on a form relating personal details / to parent's financial circumstances etc etc" and for some reason I was sure they couldn't ask questions relating to whether you own or rent your home, but having scoured it now after posting this, there seems to be nothing saying they can't ask this, so I shall be quiet and meekly fill it in, even though for some unknown reason it irks me 😂

I doubt they’ll process your application without you submitting all the information required 🤷🏻‍♀️

They are trying to find out if you rented just to get them into the school. It happens a lot

Just read this to DH and he’s shocked like me. Completely irrelevant.

Except it really isn’t. It’s been amply explained why it’s necessary.

Absolutely relevant.

Michael Owen committed residence fraud when getting his kids into the best primary in the area. Bought a house opposite and applied using that address. The uproar it caused when it was found out was unbelievable

@CapturedLeprechaun they're only allowed to ask questions which directly relate to their admissions criteria. Some schools have criteria designed to stop people from using short term rentals or second homes to secure a place, so it's possible the questions relate to that.

However, if it's the Royal Grammar School in Buckinghamshire, they have just recently been found in breach of the admissions code for requiring applicants to prove their rental is long term: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-royal-grammar-school-7-september-2023

It really shouldn’t irk you. It’s there to ensure your child gets a place at a local school in an area you have lived for many years. Unfortunately, address fraud is more common at grammar schools than regular comprehensives.

People don’t want to risk moving to areas with inflated property prices before knowing whether or not their child has passed the exam. So they rent one bedroom flats on the doorstep of the school and never live there, or use a relative’s address. Local authorities are wise to this and so the supplementary information is collected. It is far more irksome that local children could miss out on a local school place because someone with money can afford to try and game the system.

It was a few years ago now but one of our local grammars removed places offered to SEVEN new starters because of this type of admissions fraud. That’s 6% of the places available!!!!

Ah, this is so helpful! I wasn't aware of this determination, thank you.

It's a different school but with near identical requirements to Royal Grammar (tenancy agreement must be from an approved letting agent, must have commenced more than 1 year prior to application, must show you will live in the property more than one year post admission), which are near impossible requirements to prove!

As I said, I've lived here 8 years. Some of my rent is covered by UC as I'm a single parent, so it's very clear this is my genuine only home address and has been for some time, but I still can't meet their requirements. After living here for 3 years, my landlord decided rather than increase my rent, they would stop using the letting agent to manage the property and do it themselves (because I'm an excellent tenancy and hadn't bothered the letting agency once in 3 years, and always paid rent on time, so they letting agency were essentially getting money for nothing!), so now my tenancy is a "private" tenancy, and also it's now a rolling monthly AST, so doesn't have an end date. So it's good to know the ombudsman has said it is not legal or in line with the code to require these to apply, very interesting! Thanks so much for this.

Happy to help. It means that if you are refused a place due to not meeting their residence criteria you can appeal on the grounds that their admissions policy breaches the code (using the RGS decision as evidence).