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Secondary education

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Original poster

What changes would you make to GCSE`s

147 replies

4lennahcnosloohcsvti · 08/09/2023 22:16

If you could make any changes to gcse`s what would they be ?

What subjects would you remove from the curriculum and what would you add ?

OP posts:
Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 17:21

@Dragonwindow technically no one has to re take a GCSE in English and Maths. It's not a law or anything to get it up to Grade 4 it's just if a pupil wants to move on to A-levels/T-Levels/Btec etc or an apprenticeship will say they need to have a Grade 4 to qualify to be accepted on the course. Colleges make it a requirement to do alongside many vocational courses.
But if a 16 year old goes straight into a job (which can be done) an employer doesn't have to insist on it. They can employ whoever they want - if they think they can do the job.

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 17:26

@Dragonwindow whatever happened to those 14 - 18 Diplomas that were introduced as an experiment several years ago?
Obviously the experiment failed. I wonder how many people have the Diploma as their qualification instead of GCSEs/A-levels.

froomeonthebroom · 09/09/2023 17:26

Make functional skills count in the data.

Scrap linear qualifications.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 09/09/2023 17:31

There should also be a more academic curriculum, and everyone on this pathway would study maths til 18,like most other countries.

I don't agree with this. You said earlier in your post that not everyone needs Pythagoras and indices and whatnot. Surely that goes for the majority of academic students as well as the less academic ones? I was very academic, Oxbridge degree etc, I'm in my early 50s and I don't think I've needed anything much more than basic arithmetic and percentages since I did my GCSEs. I got an A in maths GCSE (god knows how), but I hated it and doing 2 more years of it would have been pointless for me.

Dragonwindow · 09/09/2023 17:38

noblegiraffe · 09/09/2023 17:19

Ah I see- I've never heard it called that before (and I'm a maths teacher!). So if a 1/2/3 is a level 1 pass, why do kids have to retake if they haven't got the magic 4?

Right up until 5 weeks before the new 9-1 GCSEs were actually sat by Y11 the plan was to force kids to resit it if they didn't achieve a 5! The resit policy is actually being scrutinised right now because the proportion of kids who resit and get 4+ is 16% which suggests it's largely a waste of time for the majority.

The 4 is because it is 'equivalent' to an old C grade, and an old C-grade was equivalent to an O-level pass. Below a C-grade was equivalent to an old CSE pass. When the two qualifications were combined into GCSEs, instead of everyone just having GCSEs at either Level 1 or Level 2, people started describing Level 1 passes that were equivalent to a CSE pass as a fail because it wasn't equivalent to an O-level pass. It's a terrible failing of the system - no one used to described CSE passes as fails but now those kids are described as having failed their GCSEs.

So if you wanted to introduce a new qualification with Level 1 and Level 2 passes, you'd have to be sure that people wouldn't start describing Level 1 passes as a fail like they do now!

I've been a maths teacher for 14 years (and HOD for 2 😬) and no one's ever explained that to me before! I can't believe that there exists a system where grades 1/2/3 are officially "pass" grades, and yet they still need retaking - doesn't feel much like a pass, does it?!

O Levels and CSEs were before my time. It sounds like it was a good system, we should go back to that 🤷‍♀️

Moredarkchocolateplease · 09/09/2023 17:39

grass321 · 09/09/2023 16:01

One exam board so there's consistency of everyone sitting the same exam (or at least most of the same papers).

It might be marketing bollocks but our school prattles on about picking 'harder' GCSE boards as a better stepping stone to A levels. Which seems silly to me as you're dropping most of your subjects.

Which is the opposite of private schools who pick the easiest ones, including iGCSE, which for Maths has two exams instead of one.

But state schools don't generally pay the higher entrance fee for IGCSE.

Dragonwindow · 09/09/2023 17:59

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 17:21

@Dragonwindow technically no one has to re take a GCSE in English and Maths. It's not a law or anything to get it up to Grade 4 it's just if a pupil wants to move on to A-levels/T-Levels/Btec etc or an apprenticeship will say they need to have a Grade 4 to qualify to be accepted on the course. Colleges make it a requirement to do alongside many vocational courses.
But if a 16 year old goes straight into a job (which can be done) an employer doesn't have to insist on it. They can employ whoever they want - if they think they can do the job.

My understanding is that state funding for FE courses is dependent on students retaking if they haven't achieved those magic 4s. So it's not the schools/colleges themselves who are insisting on the retakes.

(Hence why there's no particular requirement for students to retake exams at independent schools)

Georgie8 · 09/09/2023 18:11

@grass321 I agree, every single student should sit exactly the same exam paper. I cannot see how every grade can be ‘equal’ when so may different exam boards are in the game.

I really cannot understand why this isn’t the case now when all children sit exams at 16. Different exam boards are a throwback to when almost no one stayed in school beyond 14.

@Moredarkchocolateplease My understanding is that state schools aren’t allowed to enter students for IGCSEs because they allow the option of coursework and Michael Gove didn’t approve of that although, weirdly, he insisted on coursework for many A levels 🤷‍♀️

Also agree the entire 7/8/9 grades makes a 4/5/6 sound a bit rubbish, when they aren’t!

Dragonwindow · 09/09/2023 18:19

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 09/09/2023 17:31

There should also be a more academic curriculum, and everyone on this pathway would study maths til 18,like most other countries.

I don't agree with this. You said earlier in your post that not everyone needs Pythagoras and indices and whatnot. Surely that goes for the majority of academic students as well as the less academic ones? I was very academic, Oxbridge degree etc, I'm in my early 50s and I don't think I've needed anything much more than basic arithmetic and percentages since I did my GCSEs. I got an A in maths GCSE (god knows how), but I hated it and doing 2 more years of it would have been pointless for me.

So what age should kids be allowed to stop studying maths? 16 is totally arbitrary these days. Under my plan, you wouldn't have had to study any higher maths than GCSE if you didn't want, you would have had the option to take a GCSE equivalent at age 18. This would have freed up loads of time earlier on; you could argue that your timetable was unnecessarily maths-heavy from age 11-16 (maths probably got the most lessons per week on your whole timetable? Even though English was two exams?!)

TeenDivided · 09/09/2023 18:23

Psychologically I feel it is better to sit a level 1 exam, and 'pass' the level 1, than to sit a Level 2 exam, not get the Level 2 but be given the Level 1 pass.

DD's C&G Level 1 Merit somehow seems 'better' than her grade 3 GCSEs.

Foxesandsquirrels · 09/09/2023 18:24

@Georgie8 The whole IGCSE thing makes me so so cross. My DD has moved to a specialist dyslexia school that's independent. They have an amazing pass rate in GCSE English and the head said it's mainly due to them being able to make the most of the coursework option. It's really unfair that state school kids don't have that.

Oblomov23 · 09/09/2023 18:24

I don't really have any suggestions. I think they are ok as they are.

kitchenSink5 · 09/09/2023 18:30

Don't test recall. Test ability to understand, manipulate and/or apply info. So make everything open book.

grass321 · 09/09/2023 18:34

They have an amazing pass rate in GCSE English and the head said it's mainly due to them being able to make the most of the coursework option. It's really unfair that state school kids don't have that.

We're at a private school and they deliberately choose not to do the coursework option. Think they finally relented for one history paper this year but they've chosen exam only for the other GCSEs (other than art and DT etc).

The other selective private schools near me are the same, coursework option not chosen,

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 18:36

@Dragonwindow the statutory school leaving age for England, Wales and NI is still 16.
There isn't actually a requirement for 16+ to be at school/college (despite the "education or training" thing England has - it's not legally enforced) so it can't be insisted that Maths is taught until 18. School finishes at 16. Maths should be taught until 16 and after that it's completely optional.

HeidiWhole · 09/09/2023 18:42

Agree with everyone doing functional maths and only those who choose to continuing to GCSE.
English literature should be studied by everyone at a basic level - watching/understand plays etc but Lit exams should be an option. English language exams should also begin with functional skills.

TeenDivided · 09/09/2023 18:49

I'm in lots of different minds about this.

Mainly I like that my less able DD was taught a big variety of subjects, but if more of them could have been non examined then her revision time such as it was could have been spent on some core subjects.

Findyourneutralspace · 09/09/2023 18:51

More practical and vocational subject options - plastering, hairdressing, catering etc

Headingforholidays · 09/09/2023 18:52

Get rid of the EBacc.

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 18:59

@TeenDivided yes I don't think everything that's taught should be about passing an exam at the end. Some things should just be taught because they are useful, interesting or simply fun.
The whole of Year 11 seems to be constant "revision"...do they actually learn anything new?

Hibernatalie · 09/09/2023 19:01

Scrap them altogether and award based on a body of work across 5 years

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 19:34

@Hibernatalie yes - maybe more like the "credits" system in the USA.

noblegiraffe · 09/09/2023 20:14

Needmorelego · 09/09/2023 18:36

@Dragonwindow the statutory school leaving age for England, Wales and NI is still 16.
There isn't actually a requirement for 16+ to be at school/college (despite the "education or training" thing England has - it's not legally enforced) so it can't be insisted that Maths is taught until 18. School finishes at 16. Maths should be taught until 16 and after that it's completely optional.

It's enforced by stopping child benefit if the child doesn't continue with approved education or training.

And if they do continue with approved education or training and they haven't got a 4+ in English or maths, they have to continue to study it.

noblegiraffe · 09/09/2023 20:15

Hibernatalie · 09/09/2023 19:01

Scrap them altogether and award based on a body of work across 5 years

If your child is a boy, or a particular ethnic background, or from a disadvantaged background, you really wouldn't want this to happen.

OnTheSofaAllNight · 09/09/2023 20:19

We should be teaching Mandarin and AI.

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