Page 4 | DD is starting a petition at the school with her friends

EmmaMackenzie42 · 2023-09-07T20:17:11+00:00

Hi, this is my first time posting but I've been on Mumsnet for a while, and I've found lots of things useful on this website :) So this all started when my eldest daughter (14 years old) didn't get into the netball team (there are only 15 places in each year, including subs, out of the hundreds of girls in the school). I've realised that the boys in her school have plenty of sports teams (football, rugby, basketball, cricket, tennis, even table tennis etc.). The only other technical girls sport is X-country (that is unisex, but it only happens once a year). She wanted to start a petition along some of her other friends to make more girls sports teams and it has got quite a few signatures so far from several girls and even a few boys. They are also holding an additional petition to have an end-of-year school prom following exam season; thst has garnered a similar number of signatures. The school has claimed it will consider the prom (but no actions have been done so far), and they also said they wouldn't create more girls sports teams because "not enough girls would sign up/ want to play for the sports teams". I am in full support of my DD and her friends, and I love her very much. I came on here hoping for online support to put pressure on the school to create more girls' sports teams (and the EOY prom of course! :) ).

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 10:34

SoupDragon · 08/09/2023 10:31

Funny how there are no problems getting staff to supervise the boys.

Instead of removing opportunities for boys, Maybe that is the question that should be being asked of the female staff.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:39

But once again we have the usual.
Take it away from the boys.
And a group of people that expect someone else to do the work for nothing.

🎸
What work are the boys putting in to get their considerable privilege?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:39

Some of the misogyny here is pretty shocking.

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 10:41

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:39

But once again we have the usual.
Take it away from the boys.
And a group of people that expect someone else to do the work for nothing.

🎸
What work are the boys putting in to get their considerable privilege?

Why should the boys be doing the "work", they are attending a group set up by volunteers.

Yes the group could open up to girls as well, but it shouldn't be taken away form the boys.

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 10:42

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:39

Some of the misogyny here is pretty shocking.

Should we start calling misandry as well or could we continue with the discussion?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:56

There is no misandry. Calling out privilege and asking for equality is not misandry.

Calling out misogyny, the defence of the boys' privilege and the girls' disadvantage is integral to the discussion.

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 11:01

There is also no misogyny in saying that the boys shouldn't lose what they have when there are suitable work arounds so that both could have sports clubs.

BigFatLiar · 08/09/2023 11:01

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 10:56

There is no misandry. Calling out privilege and asking for equality is not misandry.

Calling out misogyny, the defence of the boys' privilege and the girls' disadvantage is integral to the discussion.

Then get the PE staff to back it. Don't cut the boys options increase the girls options.

Ponderingwindow · 08/09/2023 11:16

Equality in sport carries over into equality in society. This thread is a perfect illustration.

the United States has Title IX which requires schools to equally provision sport for girls and boys. The reality is of course of different than the legal requirement, but the cultural impact is still profound.

I personally don’t care about sport. I have no interest as a participant or a spectator, but I can still see the importance of valuing sport for girls at a societal level. It tells them they can and should be equal participants in the public world.

this thread also makes it clear that not provisioning for girls reinforces the idea within society at large that their needs are not important.

RafaistheKingofClay · 08/09/2023 11:21

BigFatLiar · 08/09/2023 09:19

I suspect that the male PE staff are running most of these. Perhaps it's time for the female PE staff to be more responsive and help supervise some sports. Perhaps just now they have netball because that's the only sport their female PE teachers is willing to cover.

Why are you assuming that the PE staff are only coaching teams based on their own sex? No reason male PE teachers couldn’t coach female teams.

Girls turning up to boys practice times is a great idea. Better still, if the boys are on board they could not turn up. Female sports starts, particularly the football team at the moment would be good. As would contacting your MP.

If she’s got 60% of girls in her year group, then extending it to other year groups and running a survey about what teams they would like to see/join would be an obvious next step.

RafaistheKingofClay · 08/09/2023 11:23

Cut the boys teams only came up because posters were arguing the staff had no time. If that’s not the case then there’s no need to cut the boys teams is there. PE (or other staff can run the clubs on top of the boys sports clubs).

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 11:24

Ponderingwindow · 08/09/2023 11:16

Equality in sport carries over into equality in society. This thread is a perfect illustration.

the United States has Title IX which requires schools to equally provision sport for girls and boys. The reality is of course of different than the legal requirement, but the cultural impact is still profound.

I personally don’t care about sport. I have no interest as a participant or a spectator, but I can still see the importance of valuing sport for girls at a societal level. It tells them they can and should be equal participants in the public world.

this thread also makes it clear that not provisioning for girls reinforces the idea within society at large that their needs are not important.

No one has said that the girls shouldn't have equality in this.
Just that the boys shouldn't lose out either.
It seems to me that when this comes up we are not talking about equality but equity, in that someone must lose something for someone else to get it.

Have the girls that started the petition approached the PE staff and asked if they can train with/join the "boys" clubs?
Or have they decided that they wants girls only clubs?

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 11:25

RafaistheKingofClay · 08/09/2023 11:23

Cut the boys teams only came up because posters were arguing the staff had no time. If that’s not the case then there’s no need to cut the boys teams is there. PE (or other staff can run the clubs on top of the boys sports clubs).

Maybe the parents that are supporting the girls stance could volunteer?

123ZYX · 08/09/2023 11:32

@FrippEnos perhaps some parents could step in the run some of the boys clubs to free staff to start some girls clubs?

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 11:38

123ZYX · 08/09/2023 11:32

@FrippEnos perhaps some parents could step in the run some of the boys clubs to free staff to start some girls clubs?

They could but I doubt that they will.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/09/2023 11:43

this thread also makes it clear that not provisioning for girls reinforces the idea within society at large that their needs are not important.

perhaps some parents could step in the run some of the boys clubs to free staff to start some girls clubs?

Cut the boys teams only came up because posters were arguing the staff had no time. If that’s not the case then there’s no need to cut the boys teams is there. PE (or other staff can run the clubs on top of the boys sports clubs).

Yes to all of the above.

londonmummy1966 · 08/09/2023 12:11

@EmmaMackenzie42 I think that we need a bit more information - there may be only one girls team sport (and that it woeful) but are there other clubs being run by the PE staff which perhaps are more on the fitness spectrum for the girls eg a street dance club, yoga etc which is where the extracurricular time for the girls is going? If so then the petition will need to recognise and address this as the PE staff may have found that this is a more popular (and therefore effective) use of their time?

Having said that there are some sports on the list which should be easy enough to put girl in - tennis for an eg (although a team is going to be really small) as they can even coach mixed doubles, likewise there is no reason for not having mixed sessions for table tennis as the equipment is light and it is non contact so the risks to the girls are slight.

OriginalUsername2 · 08/09/2023 12:19

Maybe she could be less vague. Get a group of enough girls together who will actually commit to one sport once a week and ask for that to happen. “More sports for girls” is a vague idea. Go to them with a solution.

ReeseWitherfork · 08/09/2023 12:20

It seems to me that when this comes up we are not talking about equality but equity, in that someone must lose something for someone else to get it.
This is really tricky, and I do generally agree, but when there are a fixed amount of resources (teacher time, field/sports hall space, number of balls or tennis rackets) then I’m not sure what else they can do. They’ve got a certain amount of stuff and need to find a better way of distributing it. Its apparent that there are more pupils at the school wanting to participate in sport than the resources allow, and biological sex seems like an antiquated way of deciding who is cut. It’s very possible that historically the girls weren’t utilising an allocation, but that demonstrably needs revisiting.

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 12:24

ReeseWitherfork · 08/09/2023 12:20

It seems to me that when this comes up we are not talking about equality but equity, in that someone must lose something for someone else to get it.
This is really tricky, and I do generally agree, but when there are a fixed amount of resources (teacher time, field/sports hall space, number of balls or tennis rackets) then I’m not sure what else they can do. They’ve got a certain amount of stuff and need to find a better way of distributing it. Its apparent that there are more pupils at the school wanting to participate in sport than the resources allow, and biological sex seems like an antiquated way of deciding who is cut. It’s very possible that historically the girls weren’t utilising an allocation, but that demonstrably needs revisiting.

As someone already posted, the girls could train with the boys. If it becomes a mixed club with male and female teams then fixtures could be sorted at the same time with other schools. (yes, away match fixture staffing could be an issue). But no one loses out and this could work for most sports.

ReeseWitherfork · 08/09/2023 12:27

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 12:24

As someone already posted, the girls could train with the boys. If it becomes a mixed club with male and female teams then fixtures could be sorted at the same time with other schools. (yes, away match fixture staffing could be an issue). But no one loses out and this could work for most sports.

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Absolutely. I assume the result is that some kids will miss out. Some boys who might otherwise have been on the team may not end up playing if there’s not the space. This is all assuming the argument is true that there is no more staff availability to run extra clubs.

SnowdaySewday · 08/09/2023 12:46

By fighting for two issues, your DD is in danger of both being ignored.

She has a good point about the difference in sports provision between girls and boys and this appears to be a simple case of sex discrimination. This is worth fighting for as the school are treating the girls less favourably.

The prom is another matter. Why would year 10s have a prom, they are not leaving school after their exams? If she wants to collect names, it should be a list of parents prepared to organise and supervise such an event. By including this in her protests, she weakens her argument and gives the school an opportunity to appear to have gone some way towards meeting the girls' requests without addressing the underlying inequality.

BigFatLiar · 08/09/2023 12:55

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 12:24

As someone already posted, the girls could train with the boys. If it becomes a mixed club with male and female teams then fixtures could be sorted at the same time with other schools. (yes, away match fixture staffing could be an issue). But no one loses out and this could work for most sports.

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I suspect this will only work if the actual teams are mixed sex. Having the boys and girls train together and then try to create two teams wouldn't work. If you then have two teams you'll have two sets of coaching.

FrippEnos · 08/09/2023 13:04

BigFatLiar · 08/09/2023 12:55

I suspect this will only work if the actual teams are mixed sex. Having the boys and girls train together and then try to create two teams wouldn't work. If you then have two teams you'll have two sets of coaching.

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A lot of the training for both girls and boys would be exactly the same. speed runs, ball control etc.
Training for corner kicks could be done by sex. and even the training for the different types of player (defender, attacker etc.) are the same and wouldn't need separation.
Team training would/could be separate but only if need be.
For most sports the training is the same.

caringcarer · 08/09/2023 13:08

EmmaMackenzie42 · 07/09/2023 21:34

@Floralnomad Over 60% of students in the year (mostly female) have signed the petition and the number is only increasing.

But do they actually want to try out for a potential sports team themselves or are just supporting a small minority who do? Your DD could print out a questionnaire asking female pupils to tick which sports they'd want to participate in every week including competitively. Out of school female cricket is often free and run by cricket clubs trying to develop the female game often with female coaches.