English secondary teachers

[ivet83]

hi, are there any english teachers around? i am unsure weather I should become a primary teacher or a secondary english teacher? doing an english degree now but dreading the teenagers. on the other hand not good in maths- GCSE grade D. any advice?

I think you need maths grade c or above to do teacher training of any type.

why do you want to teach? what's so bad about teenagers?

oh this is exactly the same as me - doing an english degree, want to teach english but dreading the teenagers! and also maths gcse grade d!
am hoping to do PGCE next sept.

hi allgonebellyup, I can't believe that you are in the same boat as me. you said you want to do PGCE next but which one? primary or secondary? That's what I am thinking should I take GCSE in Maths and try to improve my grade or should I do secondary? so confused. And I don't think that you need grade C in Maths to be an English teacher.

I think you do.

well i need to check that as I don't see what teaching English has to do with Maths

You will need a GCSE (or equivalent ) in English maths and science at a grade C or higher if you want to teach in secondary school.

I think that it is faintly mad to want this too, but it is what is expected.

Even though I have a degree in Biochemistry I still had to show my O level certificate!

You will also have to pass a basic skills test in English, Maths and computing. Things like spellings an punctuation, fractions, times tables and percentages. The computing is farcical, and is nothing like anything in any windows based software I have ever used.

you can, at least, keep resiiting these in your PGCE year until you pass.

They will not take you on to a PGCE course without the grade Cs (or equivalent)

Yep, you need the Cs. My mate did an English secondary PGCE with me & had to have coaching so she could re-take her Maths GCSE. Daft rule but there you go...

Is it teaching English you want to do, or teaching children? For me, it was about loving the subject & wanting to teach mostly Eng Lit, so obviously I went the secondary route. After 8 years the teenagers are mostly beginning to seem quite bearable, too

thank you all i will think about it. anyway i need to decide if i would enjoy primary more than secondary.

Can your Uni arrange for you to visit local schools? We quite often get students/grads popping in for a recce. See what you think of the atmosphere & the lessons taking place...

agree that it is well worth seeing modern teaching practice before deciding.

and most teenagers are fine! Big advantage of secondary is that you tend just to teach your subjevt, I'd never be able to cover all the subjects in Primary.

Plus if you don't get on with a student in secondary you part company after an hour or so, in Primary you have them for a year!

Yeap definitely need a C or above. Which is not that hard to get these days. I expect I'll be shot down in flames for daring to suggest that GCSEs are easier than O levels but they are so there you go!! I don't agree that it's irrelevant if you're teaching English. It's about having a decent all round level of education. A certain level of skill in Maths shows that you have the capacity to think logically, problem solve etc which are necessary skills for all aspects of teaching. Likewise, it wouldnt be acceptable for a Maths teacher to not have decent level of Literacy skills.
I'd say go secondary every time, but then i'm biased as I teach Secondary level. And my degree is in English!

If nothing else you have to have the mathematical ability to sort out all; the bloody statistical analysis of test results etc, to see if the kids are progressing as they should

Yes you absolutely have to get the C in Maths and this will need to be your first priority, whether you decide to go for primary or secondary.

I strongly second the suggestion to see various schools, primary and secondary in action - maybe you could volunteer in one of each for a week or so, to get a feel for the differences between primary and secondary.

But my advise would always be towards secondary, as I love it so much.

And MB is right - you'll need to be reasonably decent at Maths in order to cope with all the grades analysis, coursework marking etc.

Without meaning to be an insufferable pedant, and I'm sure there's going to be an "it's just a post/mistake" uproar, I don't think anyone should consider being an English teacher if they are unable to differentiate between 'weather' and 'whether'.

Twiglet - I bit my tongue about that and about the lack of capital letters as we all make mistakes (not least me and I've been teaching English for years but sometimes when typing my fingers run away with me). Also, some people don't consider forums as the place for absolutely correct spelling, grammar etc and are more text-ish about their writing then. I also think age may have something to do with it and suspected that the op may be quite a lot younger than myself.

But I know what you mean.

Yes I know which is why I hesitated to post.

But IMHO being able to choose the wrong spelling and write ungrammatically because of the format of the written communication is a sign that English isn't really one's forte.

Ivet, are you doing a uni degree at the mo?

If you are, you could find out if your uni through the ed dept are doing the SAS course which gives you a way into teaching, the info about the scheme here:

www.tda.gov.uk/about/newsletter/may2007/knowledge.aspx

It essentially pays you spend some time in school while you're doing your degree

You do need a pass in Maths at grade C. If you love your subject then choose secondary. I think teenagers are fab but then I have some lovely classes to teach this year.

hi guys thank you all for your posts but my issue with secondary teaching is that I love English but the language study of English not so much Literature. I mean grammar, syntax etc. As English is not my mother tongue, I am not really into the whole Shakespeare thing.

Don't teach English at seconday level if you're not into the Shakespeare thing.

For secondary you need to know your subject as well as love it - teenagers can be ruthless if they think you don't know your stuff. So an enjoyment of Shakespeare and other literary works pretty essential as you'd be teaching it day in, day out. Only at A level could you specialise in English Language (if offered) but it would make up a small part of your teaching.

Primary teaching might therefore be more suitable because no scary teenagers (!) and the literacy strategy makes the teaching of syntax and grammar very explicit, but of course you would have to teach more than just English.

The best way to know is to get into schools. The SAS route, as I mentioned before, is a good one.

The alternative might be to do some adult literacy teaching or even TEFL?

I am with Twiglett. I have an English degree too ... The next generation of pedants has to know the difference between weather and whether.

What Heated said

The majority of secondary English teaching is Literature. You will have to teach Shakespeare as well as a huge range of other classic texts. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation need to be practically flawless since not only the students but other teaching staff will look to you for guidance there!

Some schools offer English language A level but it bears very little relation to the English teaching at KS 3 and 4. It requires a whole range of skills that those of us who have trained to teach English Lit don't necessarily have.

TBH, you don't sound as if you are suited to teaching English at a secondary level. At the very least, you need to do a lot more research into what it involves before deciding! As Heated said, TEFL may be your best bet for the kind of thing you're interested in.

No, secondary English teaching doesn't sound right for you, although EAL teaching may wel be something you'd enjoy. A great deal of the secondary English curriculum is taken up by Literature and a great deal of the Literature is taken up with Shakespeare!

I think to be a successful secondary teacher you need to be absolutely passionate a) about your subject and b) about your pupils -otherwise I can imagine it might be pretty soul-destroying.

well not wel sorry!!!