State school vs Grammar school in Sixth form

[sha28]

DS studied in State school and got really good grades in his GCSE. DS has got an offer from Grammar school and we are in the confusion state to choose between his current state school which is outstanding ofsted report and a grammar school which is also good and not easy to get in however ofsted report is good. Though we are not really much concern about ofsted report, just wondering about new environment, new teachers/friends, etc. DS is academically good and he prefer to be top in the class. I'm sure if DS going to grammar school, most of them would be really good academically, so either it would push him to do better or in worst case, he may feel down. DS prefer to continue his current school but at the same time he is also thinking about grammar school. DS repeatedly saying that, he would achieve good grades irrespective of schools and he believe that grades depends on students effort, not schools. Apart from academic, both schools are good in sports and extra curricular activities not sure about supporting for uni.

I think this confusion is normal but what are the other things we'll need to consider to choose which one would suit DS best and good for his career?

Where does he want to go?
Transport and distance may also be a factor if all else is equal.
I moved two of my kids from a grammar to a comprehensive for sixth form, they preferred it. My third stayed at the grammar, and is absolutely hating it!
Look at how they teach, it’s important!!

Do you mean the choice between comprehensive and state grammar? Or is it a private grammar (in which case surely money is a crucial factor in the decision)?

It sounds like DS has the choice of 2 good options, so it's really down to what he wants. It sounds like he's happy and settled where he is, so I can't see a reason why he would move. And he's totally correct that success in A Levels will come from applying himself as an individual more than the setting (unless it's really dreadful, which doesn't sound like the case for either of these options).

What are the entrance criteria for his current school sixth form? If he's wanting to do A Levels, the children in his class will be at the higher end of the academic spectrum anyway and, if the school has high entry criteria, may not be very dissimilar to the peer group at the grammar school.

My daughter just got very high gcse grades. She is staying at her comp. She gets lots of support and I have no doubt she can achieve the same a level grades as at the grammar.

She looked at the grammar and was accepted but decided against it. One of her friends is leaving the grammar to come to the comp for 6th form because she says it has better facilities.

“DS repeatedly saying that, he would achieve good grades irrespective of schools and he believe that grades depends on students effort, not schools”

Your DS got a valid point, does the Grammar sixth form got better teaching resource then the current comprehensive for your DS subjects? (not the exam outcome)
Does the Grammar has better support for university admission process? If not significant better probably don't bother.

I would allow ds to choose.
How complicated is the journey to each school?

Should he not have had to.make his mind up by now? Or has he enrolled at both schools?

Re making his decision, are both allowing him to do the subjects that he wants to study? Any difference in the extracurricular offer? What was it about the grammar school which made him decide to apply in the first place?

DS prefer to stick with the same school as it is more familiar environment. I thought it would be good for him to explore a new environment and new experience if he move to grammar however I'm also worried if this is going to affect his studies and add any anxiety?

Transport is not a big issue as current school is walkable and grammar school 20 minutes train journey each way.

Yes, it is between comprehensive and state grammar. Current school entrance criteria is a bit lower (grade 7 and 6 are acceptable) than grammar (8 and 9s) and DS got 9s.

If there's not much to choose between the schools, extra-curricular activities, journey to school, A Level results and he wants to stay where he is I would leave him.

At his age there is a lot to be said for being with a settled friendship group, presumably teachers that already know him and a familiar environment.

Have you been happy with the school up to this point?

RE support for university admission process: We are not 100% sure on this. Both of them mentioned on their website that they do support. As per their report, more people from grammar school get into Russel group universities than state school which is obvious.

Do they offer different A levels? Which one fits your DS better?

I would want to understand the aspirations of his current school. I had friends who were told ‘not to bother with Oxbridge because it’s not for you (the likes of us)’ and ended up in both cases with brilliant firsts from Oxbridge despite their schools. Anecdotally that’s not a problem at grammar schools.

Many comprehensive schools are selective at Sixth Firm and ask for high GCSE grades for A level subjects, so he should be with the high achieving peer group.

If he prefers to stay put and it is a school that supports students to apply for the full range of Uni opportunities open to them then I would say stay put.

DS enrolled to his current one and have to accept or decline early next week for grammar. Yes both are allowing to the subject DS wants. Current school only 3 subjects whereas grammar 4 subjects (option to drop one subject in Year 13).

RE extra curricular, both seems to be very similar but not sure about support university admission, I reckon, more support from grammar school on this. We insisted him to apply for a grammar school and then he can choose whether to go or not once got an offer. This is where we ended up now :)

If he is aiming high then some universities compare results against others in the school - for that the comp would be better.

Do you mean, university give preference to people who achieved high grades from state schools than grammar schools?

Hi op I agree with those who say his current school sounds fine and if he would prefer to stay there, all good. If he achieved all 9s then he is able and motivated and the teaching must be good.

BTW - a state comp and a state grammar are both state schools; I would talk about a grammar or a comp. A lot of private schools call themselves “grammar” so saying “state or grammar” may be confusing ppl (like me!)

It does sound like the comp is the better fit. It’s closer, DS is happy there and the teachers will know him.

Also, it is that school that supported your DS to get his 9s. He could not have done any better at the Grammar for GCSE. Why would that change at A level especially when it will a more focused cohort of people who have chosen to there!

"it is that school that supported your DS to get his 9s."

• Exactly what DS told and he is also some kind of guiltiness about moving for that reason. I'm happy about that but is it not something we should choose what is best for us.

• Also, one of my other argument is, if DS not decided to join his current school, other student who got lower grade can get a place which is also good.

I think everyone in this post leaning towards current school. I'm also going in that direction but I really don't want DS to miss any of the benefits grammar school can offer. I've mentioned some of the pros/cons below, please let me know your thoughts.

Grammar school (pros)

• Students in the class same level as DS, so he can push himself for better
• Good results in the past
• More support for Uni (this is from their report suggesting that lot of their students gone to good universities)
• Offering 4 subjects and option of dropping one subject in Year 13
• I guess Teaching would be better than state school
• Good experience to explore new environment
• More visibility in his CV

Grammar school (cons)

• Unfamiliar environment (new teachers/friends, etc.)
• More pressure
• There is a chance that DS may not be one of the topper in the class which may disappoint him

Current school (pros)

• Familiar environment (Teachers, Friends, etc.)
• Not much pressure

Current school (cons)

• There is a chance that teachers and friends are new
• Offering only 3 subjects, DS will need to stick with these, no option of dropping
• Less support for Uni admissions (This is assumption as per their report)

Have you actually visited the Grammar? (Sorry if I have missed you saying if you have). Are the facilities better? If so is it relevant to DS? For example a fabulous science lab may look good but won’t help DS if his subjects are humanities based.

What is the 6th form offer compared to the comp? Do they require 7s and the comp 5s for example or are they broadly similar? How do A level results actually compare?

Is the teaching actually better or have they taken an intake who are already likely to do well and just worked with them to get there? Compare that to a comp who will have taught a wide range of students at GCSE.

Can you speak directly to the comp about their support for uni applications. You can also support DS with this too.

Add all of this into your pro/con list and then let DS make the decision.

A con for the grammar school may be that they provide less support for non-university routes than the comprehensive (who will be used to students going on to do a range of things after further education).

My friend's son received precisely no support in applying for degree apprenticeships at his very academic school. In fact, he was told he had to apply to UCAS even though he had no interest in going to university.

I wouldn't assume either school gives more or less support for university based on the number of students going there. Students from clued up middle class families (likely to be more of these at the grammar) will be getting a lot of support from their families. In fact, I'd expect clued up middle class parents to doing their own research as well as relying on what the school says. These days, with so much information on the internet and a wealth of support forums, it's very easy (for example) to find out what universities expect in terms of entry grades, subjects and any other entry requirements.