Chance to change Alevel choices -advice needed

[Fatandmenopausal]

Ds didn’t get his first choice to stay on at his grammar school for 6th form. His GCSE results were a bit disappointing . I’m gutted he’s not staying on as it’s only 3 miles away and most of his friends are staying on. He is 5 point off so I’m not sure there is any point in appealing. So he will be going to a college 8 miles away. The college offers a wider a choice of Alevels. Ds has basically lost any motivation now after being disappointed so is not really interested in exploring all options. He is not strong on English and has no really career aspirations at the moment . We have an enrolment appointment on Tuesday. College offers Accounting A level. Anyone have any experience ? I like the thought that it is vocational and useful for so many employers. He is set on Business Studies. But trying to choose 3rd Alevel. I suggested Geography, but he didn’t study it for GCSE. It doesn’t require you to have but wondered if it would be disadvantage for him? Any other A-level recommendations that would work please.

I teach a-level geography and I’m afraid I wouldn’t recommend it for anyone who hasn’t achieved at least a 6 at GCSE in a humanities subject (ideally a 7). Contrary to popular belief, it’s not an easy a-level, especially if you have no particular interest in the subject.

I teach geog A level. We take many students who haven’t done geography at GCSE but if he came to me with his profile I would say no- sorry. He would need 6’s in English if he hasn’t got a 6 in geog. It’s based around essay writing, if he can’t write- he will struggle.

Have you delved into why a grammar-level student got those grades. Is there some undiagnosed SpLD going on. Or just laziness / lack of motivation.

T levels are set to replace Btecs so if there is an opportunity to do a business type over he might prefer that? His grades seem a bit on the low side for A levels or did he just do poorly in his exams compared to what he was predicted?

Unless you are aiming for university A levels are not necessarily the best route but unfortunately some people see them as the normal progression from GCSEs and anything else as second best. BTecs and apprenticeships are perfectly acceptable ways of progressing.

I work in a college and have done for years, so have seen the progression from BTECs to T Levels. One thing to be aware of is that industry placement is a compulsory part of a T Level. This is a minimum of 315 hours over the course of the 2 years, though many don't start it until the second year. The way in which it is timetabled depends on the college. Ours does it on a one day a week basis. It is a lot easier to find a placement in Business than many other T Levels. It sounds like an awful lot but it's a fantastic opportunity to get a foot in the door; many of the students I work with personally come out of their course not only with a qualification, but also a job or apprenticeship thanks to their placement.

From friends kids who've done it A level biology is incredibly difficult

@senua , he is a bright lad but his mental health has not been great and while he was doing his exams he broke up with his girlfriend which left him pieces. I feel he is capable of doing Alevels but everyone’s comments have left me wondering now.

This is typical of 6th forms round here:
Students must achieve a minimum of 5 GCSEs at level 5 or above, including Maths and English Language or English Literature

So the only issue with your son's marks would be that he did not get a 5 in the English exams. Are the grades near the boundary- can he get them re-marked or sit English again while at 6th form?
I think if he likes Business studies then he should look at typical Uni requirements. Subjects that would typically go with Business studies would be Media studies, history, English lit. etc.
I would get him some on line tutors they helped my son a lot at A level.

I'm no expert but have friends whose children have done BTECs, A levels, T levels, a mix of BTEC and A levels...
It seems to me that it is potentially more limiting to have Ds and Es at A level than it is to have alternative qualifications.
At my DC's selective school you have to have 5 6s to stay on or move to the 6th form.
I think it's hard (not impossible if you're motivated and bright but very hard) to go from 5s at GCSE to good A level grades.
My friends' children who did alternatives to A levels have mostly done well and some have done extremely well. One who had a string of 4s and 5s had a massive boost in confidence from suddenly being the best on his course at college - came out with a distinction and is now at university and doing really well. Exams weren't for him but continuous assessment suited him really well (and he chose a uni/course that offered that as well). The uni he's at has a BBC offer for A levels which it's almost impossible he'd have achieved.

There appear to be a range of T level options for the subject he is most interested and he can still achieve the highest A level grade equivalent and university entrance with them. T levels (as BTECs are not possible at his college) seem the obvious choice as he does n’t have the interest or desire to continue with subjects that could only be done as A levels. Plus his confidence and future employability should be boosted by the placements.

Otherwise for A levels, Environmental science instead of Biology to go with Business and Accounting would be my suggestion. Possibly he could investigate media or digital media studies if creative subjects appeal.

@FFatandmenopausal
I empathise as I am in a similar situation with DD with exactly the same background.
In our case DD is adamant she doesn't want Btech or T level. I have explained many times that not everyone Is academic and she can still go to uni but she is currently not open to any advice.
She does have A level option but it's not what she wanted and a heavy compromise.
We will end up going with it as it's not my decision in the end.
Next 2 years will be another worry and I suspect she will have similar outcome end of A levels.
It is frustrating not being able to do anything. We can only hang in there and hope they suddenly see sense..
Big hugs. X

I did a business studies btec at college instead of a levels decades ago. It was the equivalent to 3 a levels and I went onto university, got 5 offers. It didn’t hold me back. With those gcse results it doesn’t bode well for A levels. Better to have a decent btec result (if the qualification still exist) than poor a level results.

DS has basically lost any motivation now after being disappointed so is not really interested in exploring all options. He is not strong on English and has no really career aspirations at the moment.
I think that he needs to think about careers and such. Up to KS4, life is fairly generalised and you can study anything. From KS5 onwards, you specialise and everything is a stepping stone to the next level. Which means the wrong step can close off possible pathways. He really needs to think about where he is going!
His best GCSE grades are Business Studies and Maths so it makes sense to think about doing them for A Level. If you throw in Geography too then I think that opens several windows. He could think about a Geography degree (Human, not Physical) which leads to all sorts of careers - GIS, planning, ecology, environment, etc - or he could think about a Quantity Surveying degree (you can also do this as a Degree Apprenticeship). He will have had the idea of University drilled into him by his Grammar but he should consider wider - there are a lot of graduates out there doing non-graduate jobs while, at the same time, the country is short of Trades.
Think about possible careers / degrees and work back from there. Check entry requirements to make sure that his A Level / BTEC / whatever decisions aren't closing doors.
Good luck. It's a lot to think about before next Tuesday!

I can’t advise on BTECs etc but as an accountant I wouldn’t go near A Level accountancy. It’ll be dull and it’s not really something employers look for.

He got a 6 in maths and therefore should NOT be considering doing it for A-level.

Personally I think he will limit his options more by doing A levels and coming out with C-E grades compared with doing a T-level and coming out with Distinctions if he works hard and has aptitude.

That said, if you all strongly believe it was his MH that dropped the grades and he is now fully recovered, he could start on A levels. If after 1 year it isn't working out he could 'restart' on a T-level.

I would agree with you if BTEC was an option, but I have some real concerns about T-levels. Firstly, they're more exam based, and students who would likely get DDD/DDM at BTEC seem to in general come out with merits, i.e. equivalent to about Cs at A-level.

Secondly, certainly locally to me, a lot of unis seem really dubious of T-levels at the moment, and don't accept them at all- even though they will happily accept BTECs (sometimes with restrictions on the modules you have taken).

If the college has lots of success with T-levels and can point to successful leavers who've gone on to destinations the DS would like, then that's a bit different, but certainly in the county where I teach, T-levels have not been successful at all for students. It's a concern for us- as a school we offer a lot of BTECs at sixth form, level, and T-levels don't seem to be quite the right replacement for 4-5 students who struggle with exams, and maybe have slightly patchy attendance.

@Fatandmenopausal Does the college offer law A-level? That might go well with business and be somewhat useful? If he likes biology and sociology, might psychology be an option? At A-level it includes a bit of biology, and is a bit mathsy, but does also include a fair bit of writing, so many not play to his strengths.

Is there anywhere further afield he could look for a business BTEC? He does sound like the sort of student who could really succeed on one.

I took on a 16 yo apprentice in similar situation. He's doing AAT, getting paid & getting work experience. He was struggling with school but is thriving in the work environment.

By 19 he'll be able to go to uni if he wants ( although restricted to accounting/business) or take a degree apprenticeship.

Some apprenticeships are a bit of a scam, but there are great options out there too

T-levels also seem to have a high drop-out rate https://feweek.co.uk/t-levels-results-2023-1-in-3-students-dropped-out/ so I agree with @Postapocalypticcowgirl that before embarking on a T-level you should scrutinise the college's performance with them, including retention. Getting work placements is a big issue so ask about that too.

I suspect that part of the problem is that they are being seen as a fallback for students who didn't do well enough for A-levels rather than a vocational alternative to A-levels and students are taking them when they're not really appropriate.

It looks as if he's not strong on essay based subjects? Was the maths grade as expected? If he did business, maths and biology he would have two sciences which opens up a lot of options or he could look at the maths plus business taking him down a data analysis type path.

No to doing maths A-level!! He only got a 6.

@noblegiraffe It's his second highest grade. OP says he underperformed across all subjects, that's why I asked if it was as predicted. As a maths teacher would you not think he could get a mid grade with a lot of hard work if he had been predicted 7?

No. Kids with 6s don't get mid-grades, they mostly fail or drop out early on, even ones who work really hard. And this kid isn't arsed about maths to begin with.