“Backup” private options in London

[Lindtnotlint]

My DD is prepping for 11+ at London indies. She is at a well-regarded private prep. Increasingly clear that our original ideas of her ending up at somewhere like CSLG/G&L are not realistic, and places like Putney/JAGS/FHSS (which we would be delighted with) feel really stretching… This is because her maths isn’t where it should be - she’s scoring ~60 per cent in practice maths papers. VR/NVR are ok though not stellar and English is ok to good, occasionally excellent.

Where should we be looking? We are thinking Queens Gate and Queens College? Emanuel looks like may be a stretch given how competitive it is getting. She’s a sparky, sensible, enthusiastic, hard working girl. I feel a bit shocked that she may end up with so few interesting options. Looking for central or west/south.

We are obviously prepping Maths pretty hard to try to offer her as many sensible school choices as we can - she is working hard and is happy. Just me who is freaking out a bit……

If you can get to Clapham Junction that opens up a lot more options. How about an international school, like ACS Egham, Cobham? If she wasn’t up to the IB she could do AP exams at Cobham, which would get her into a British university.

We don’t want to do a big journey from Clapham Junction. Somewhere like Cobham would be nearly two hours door to door!

We're fast reaching a point where having a private school on a university or job application is a disadvantage.

Their results are only better because they are selective, they don't actually add value.

So if you don't like the state you are near, move somewhere you do?

I know you're set on private, but I wondered if you'd done the evidence based critical thinking?

Is Surbiton reachable? Surbiton, Sutton and Sydenham seem to be schools which are less selective than the likes of G&L or Jags but still have plenty going for them. I’ve only visited Sutton of these which seemed like a really nice school.

FHSS, new head coming in.
Putney Head is new too.
Headteachers do have impact and it can change direction of schools.
Try Knightsbridge they have senior school and maybe DC can get in schools on on your list at 13+. Ask how they teach Maths and Sciences and your DC could improve.
Fulham Senior is new.
Emanuel, does your DC do music, sports, drama, art? They have a diverse group of scholars.
FH Regent Park branch.

Bit of a curve ball but what about Queenswood? A lot of girls travel in from Islington / Hampstead type areas, some getting the train (there’s a minibus that picks up from Potters Bar) or use their door to door transport service.

They also have a great flexi boarding offering which even if the thought horrifies you now, as they go up the school many choose to board even if just one or two nights a week.

Just wanted to highlight its accessibility before talking about the school.

Has a very broad intake academically but you need to be “average or above” to get a place. Many girls there as academic scholars but also caters for those with dyslexia, dyscalculia etc. It’s known for getting results without the stress. If you look at their results then you’ll see that even through the covid years their results remained pretty stable - an indication that they know the girls VERY well and they weren’t one of those places that saw huge grade inflation.

We turned down a grammar place as well as one at another very academically selective north London school to go there. My DD just felt at home there.

Sport, drama and dance are all superb. There’s no one typical girl there, unlike at some independent schools where the girls are all clones of each other.

We are now looking for DD2 and I think she will also head there. She’s extremely bright too but honestly, my eldest has thrived there academically and I think there’s so much more to a school than just academics.

@DibbleDooDah Always hear great things about Queenswood. Only downside has been the fees but seems they're pretty on par now. Long days too.

@Lindtnotlint it’s 20 minutes from Clapham Junction to Esher and then 10 minutes on the school bus, so not sure how far you live from Clapham Junction! There are loads of non selective private schools around Esher as well.

@Foxesandsquirrels The fees reflect a different offering to most day schools though. It used to be a full boarding school and whilst now it’s about 50% day, 50% boarding, it still has very much a boarding feel. Days are long but they are very full. Girls are expected to take advantage of everything the school has to offer, both inside and out of the classroom.

When I first looked at it I couldn’t understand why the fees were so much more expensive. Once you learn more about it then you understand.

@DibbleDooDah Oh I know. It's actually quite cheap compared to the 'day fees' at boarding schools.

If you can manage Croydon then look at Royal Russell and Old Palace

If you are at a prep then your head should be managing this for you and making appropriate suggestions - this is what you are paying for! Ask to see the head for another meeting if necessary

OP Are either Surbiton or Sutton High options in terms of travel? Lots of discussion about them (and some other schools that people see as back ups) on last year’s SW London 11+ threads.

Op it’s probably worth a 3 month subscription to
the Good Schools Guide as you can sort schools by distance and the reviews are not just gushing nonsense.

I’m following as we really want a solid, all round school for our dd and many of those schools are now chasing better results by becoming more selective. Where do the average kids go!?

many of those schools are now chasing better results by becoming more selective. Where do the average kids go!?

Those schools want to gain a reputation for being more selective, but the pool of above average academic students is limited, so many average students still get admitted. However, the standard of average has risen.

They have very much out of date reviews

Look at...

Ibstock Place
Emanuel
Francis Holland
Queens Gate
St James Girls
Harrodian
Kew House
London Park School- very new but think it is aiming to be like Kew House long term
Knightsbridge
Streatham and Clapham
Sutton High
Surbiton High

Schools with bus or train links...
Claremont Fan
St John's Leatherhead
Epsom College
Woldingham
St George's Ascot
Manor House

Don't despair OP, I have a dc who was not great at maths AND was at a failing state primary but still got into a top London prep that fed to senior (albeit at 7) because their English was strong (and presumably their VR and non VR). They've just got three A-stars in A level because, of course, those are their strongest studies. I know other friends with a similar issue - one, whose dd sounded weaker than my dc at maths only go into Sydenham but then at sixth form got a place at JAGS (again because they were now focusing on strongest subjects) and is well on course to do well at A level. Basically, they need people who are good at English as well as maths, AND you can also move somewhere more academic at sixth form. In the end, it's all fairly meaningless, whatever school they go to they all end up at the same-ish universities.

Do put postcodes into TFLs journey planner. You want to know the time of the journey, the frequency, what back up there is (train strikes, or staying late so missing school bus). Journey is ideally a maximum of 40 minutes, and a maximum of one change. We ruled out Dulwich schools because the change was either the Elephant or Brixton.

You might add Portland Place to your list and Thomas’ Senior.

Don’t worry too much about a schools A level results. GCSEs matter. Those that get their act together, or are very good at humanities or science but not both, will often swap at 6th form. (It’s a long time ago but we were told by the prep school head that DD was so hopeless at English that it was Streatham High or country boarding. She ended up taking 5 A levels at Westminster…none English obviously.)

The prep should be advising you, but once you have your long list of accessible schools, get a copy of the good schools guide and think about what might be a fit for your daughter. Because of DDs clear leaning towards the sciences and her love of sport we wanted a co-Ed as this is a pattern more normally found in boys. Luckily her school went on till 13 so we had a plan B. She still ended up sitting quite a lot of exams, but did not mind. I would take her out for lunch after and a look round the area, and worked hard to keep the pressure off and not focus on any one school.

What are you doing to prep for the 11+? Have you tried Atom learning? I have read mixed feedback on here about it and I know not everyone is a fan, but we used it with great results coming from a state school. DD applied to the schools you mentioned so I feel its relevant to you....check out Atom learning and get her to do mock tests. If she hits certain scores you will know if she has a chance at getting in. For putney and FHSS she should aim for 116 and above. G&L is 125 and above....at least last year it was. We found it very useful for prep. Do the mock exams there and you will see what she gets wrong and what you need to go over with her. I would not bother with the learning journey's as those are too easy.

@Lindtnotlint I will send you a PM

London Park School?
London Park Schools

@Lindtnotlint do you have a maths tutor for her? Often maths just needs ‘unlocking’? No private prep school will ever admit they’ve left a pupil behind in class nor how much tutoring goes on out of hours. If everything else is going great guns, I’d get the maths situation assessed to see if it can be improved as your first port of call. Regarding Schools, you’ve had some great suggestions so I think you need to start at her possible commute and work backwards from there.

What we did, and we got some great advice from a member of the SMT in one of the more academic schools named above, was write to the schools DD applied to and say that she had been diagnosed as dyslexic and they would see from results that her English was problematic. If accepted we would have her retested by someone the school was used to working with, and provide appropriate support.

My friend's first question had been whether I could see DD going to Oxbridge and my automatic answer was yes. (Indeed her sixth form were surprised she chose not to apply.) She then explained that SPGS would be looking for kids who were good at everything, but there were only so many of them. Other schools would be interested in one sided kids, as long as they were very good at their better subjects and not too bad at their weaker subjects. The issue with maths and English were that they provided the foundation for other subjects. Though in general she was not an advocate of tutoring, additional support to ensure that a pupil kept up with maths or English could be constructive.

My main concern was that DDs friendship group at prep school were purposeful and academic girls. She had little in common with the girls who showed off a new pencil case each week and who were already starting to hang out in shopping malls. I wanted her to go to a school where she would fit socially.

A bit like you, we only realised we had a problem quite late on, when finding a suitable tutor was problematic. What we did was buy the English book from the "So you really want to learn..." series and turn it into a set of family exercises, over dinner, in the car etc as well as one-to-one. (The series is designed in part for home education.) We involved the older brother and got them suggesting essay structure, points you could make etc. The idea being that when she went into an exam she would not panic but have the tools to get started. We also got her doing a heap of maths papers, which her brothers teacher kindly lent us. She focussed on types of questions which she did in a batch so I could see where she struggled. Here the aim was to show that she was sufficiently good that she was worth a place even though her English was weak.

It worked. DD did bump along the bottom in English, but once she could select GCSE options she was fine.

Another for the list is Thames Christian School in Clapham Junction. It was always a bit under the radar but has now been around for three decades, has new purpose built premises and is adding a sixth form. It’s USP used to be that it was cheaper. A no frills alternative for parents who for whatever reason wanted to move their kids from the state sector.

Back in the day when DC were of that age, we also knew central London parents who considered Surbiton High. It depends on transport links, but Surbiton is not GDST and is a big school that takes pupils from across the ability range.

Just coming on to say, as a More House parent, that you should definitely take a look.

The exam results reflect the broad ability range of the intake but the teaching is very good, with small sets, and they are used to supporting and building the confidence of late developers or those who have a spiky profile.

The more academic girls have a peer group and get the same grades they would have at more academic schools, e.g. there were a number of girls with 8 or 9 GCSEs at grades 7-9 yesterday.

It might not turn out to be right for your daughter, but it's a really good school and definitely worth considering in your position.