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Secondary education

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Original poster

Sets

29 replies

itseasy123 · 13/08/2023 12:16

Ds just got his new timetable and he and we are wondering if they ever make mistakes with the sets?

He's in top set Maths and and second set for Science but down for set 5 for English. His end of year report said secure for Maths and Science and exceeding for English.
The year group is split into two sides and each side of the year group is put into sets for Maths/English/Science where the sets are 1/2 are top sets, 3/4 middle, 5 & 6 bottom.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 13/08/2023 13:01

Well a mistake is always possible.
Dependent on what year he is, there is also the possibility that English is being done as mixed ability and they just need to code the sets for computer purpses.

I'd email his form tutor gently enquiring eg

Dear mrs X,

I wonder if you could check/clarify something for me please? We have received Tim's new timetable and he seems to be in set 5 for English. My understanding is that would be a bottom set, which would be surprising given his latest report said he is 'Exceeding'. Or is English being done mixed ability?

Many thanks

BoohooWoohoo · 13/08/2023 13:03

What kind of school is it? In a grammar school I'd expect bottom set to have national average students.

LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand · 13/08/2023 13:27

I would think either it's a mistake or he's in set 5 which is the top set in timetable 2 ie 5-8. Definitely phone up though and enquire as sometimes mistakes are made. What year is he going into ?

redskytwonight · 13/08/2023 13:33

What does "Exceeding" mean? If it is relative to targets (possibly generated from SATS results) then Exceeding will just mean he's working ahead of his own personal targets, but if his targets were low ones then he may still be working a low level relative to the rest of the year group.

titchy · 13/08/2023 13:54

Yes of course mistakes can be made - ds (at the time very high achieving) ended up in bottom set English having had his and another kid's results transposed in a spreadsheet. One email later all sorted.

Foxesandsquirrels · 13/08/2023 14:07

Mistakes are perfectly possible..my DD who is profoundly dyslexic was put into top set English in Y9. She actually learnt the most there and I wish she could've stayed but alas it lasted 6 weeks before they realised.

Original poster
itseasy123 · 13/08/2023 14:21

Thanks teendivided, we didn't think about it maybe being mixed ability.
I think we will wait a week or two to see if once he is back they get told anything and then maybe email like you suggest.
BoohooWoohoo, no it's not a grammar school.
LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand both sides have the same sets so side 1 set 1, side 2 set 1, side 1 set 2, side 2 set 2 etc.
redskytwonight I'm not too sure but understood it to mean against the curriculum.

Thanks again all and we know it doesn't really matter what set he is because he will work to the best of his ability but were just curious if mistakes do happen.

OP posts:
Foxesandsquirrels · 13/08/2023 14:22

@itseasy123 I wouldn't wait a week. I'd honestly email now. It can be difficult moving once they start as it'll inevitably upset someone. Far easier to fix it now.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 13/08/2023 14:41

I'd also email now- in 2 weeks time, the school will be dealing with GCSE results and everything around that- much better to get it sorted now.

It's very possible they are mixed ability in English in KS3- or at least for the first term. It would be helpful to know what year he's in for context?

TeenDivided · 13/08/2023 14:55

Is this Scotland? If not did he do SATs, and if so what were his scores?

A bottom set English in a comp would likely have kids who are struggling to read fluently and who have poor spelling and grammar.

GooeyPieForPud · 13/08/2023 17:19

Ds has his entire options subjects moved down one line in an excel sheet which saw him given polar opposite subjects than the ones he chose. I told him what is worse is some poor child chose art and has been given statistics! He was also marked as a cause for concern in sixth form when he was performing at A star standard had 100% attendance and his attitude to learning was outstanding. Mistakes happen, staff fill in the wrong box or the excel sheet shifts.

Don't wait, email now and question it.

DisquietintheRanks · 13/08/2023 23:06

It may be that they don't set for all subjects. My dcs school set for maths, science, pe and foreign languages but not for English or the humanities.

Nevermay · 13/08/2023 23:18

exceeding what?

And English is not normally set at all.

So you need to clarify a lot before knowing if a mistake is likely to have been made. If he is predicted a 6 in maths and is getting it, that is secure. If he is predicted a 2 in English and is getting a 3 - that is exceeding?

Schemes · 13/08/2023 23:23

DisquietintheRanks · 13/08/2023 23:06

It may be that they don't set for all subjects. My dcs school set for maths, science, pe and foreign languages but not for English or the humanities.

It's the same at my DD's school. They have mixed English as otherwise they can't get discussions going in some classes.

ThanksItHasPockets · 14/08/2023 07:11

Plenty of schools still set for English so don’t assume it’s mixed ability.

I have worked in a school before now where the set numbering was arbitrary to try and remove some stigma. It didn’t work as everyone knew roughly which set was which but it’s possible something similar is in place here. Equally it’s possible that a genuine mistake has been made.

andmslwp · 14/08/2023 07:33

In my school some subjects have sets that don't follow the traditional numbers, so for example top set might be set 4 etc. I wouldn't stress about it during the holidays and it would be pointless emailing as 99% of teachers won't be looking at their work email (quite rightly) during the holiday. Timetables are usually sent out by the data/admin team who normally have no input in which set pupils are put into. Pupils would usually have some time with their form tutor on the first day back so I'd get him to raise the issue then. If he has actually been put into a lower set you could ask the head of English for a conversation about your concerns.

andmslwp · 14/08/2023 07:42

Also please don't worry about this needing to be sorted right now before he goes back. Every school I've worked in sets are never set in stone. It is of no advantage to have a pupil in the wrong set compared to their peers so we often move pupils around all throughout the year.

Original poster
itseasy123 · 14/08/2023 12:11

Thanks for the further replies.
I meant wait a week or two of being back in school so he can find out if it is actual sets like they all believe or if for some reason they are doing mixed ability like some of you suggest.
Sats, 119, 117,113
Going into year 8
Our reports didn't give any predictions for future grades they only reference against the year curriculum

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 14/08/2023 12:39

Was English set in Year 7?

My son was in top set for maths and bottom set for English but got a personal phone call explaining the very specific reasons.

I'm assuming that the school uses the system of Emerging/ Below Expected, Secure/Expected, Exceeding/Above Expected statements in their reports?

Original poster
itseasy123 · 14/08/2023 12:54

No sets in year 7
Yes, the descriptions were emerging, developing, secure & exceeding.
It was only because he was exceeding that we wondered if it was a mistake.
I suppose it doesn't really matter what set, I assume that they will do similar work, just that set 5 will maybe go at a slower pace?

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 14/08/2023 12:58

If he is in a bottom set then I'd ask why.
I suspect they are mixed ability.
Def worth checking.
A bottom set may have more focus on basics that he can already do.

WildFeathers · 14/08/2023 13:13

I would check now using the email a pp suggested. It’s fine to ask that question. Mistakes happen and you’re just checking. You’re not going to come across as unreasonable or a pushy parent if that’s a concern.

Ifonlyoneday · 14/08/2023 19:43

I would email the school the second day after they return. Unlike what a previous poster said, our dds school does not move the sets throughout the year and issues/mistakes are all addressed in the first 2 weeks with sets.

I also would not leave up to you child to raise it as some schools will fob off the child with an explanation,a parental explanation should be given.

our school is similar to yours in that it has 2 sides with each having 6 sets and they are in number order. The so x1 and y1. Most schools do not have odd numbering of sets as the children work out which is top from the cohort. Whilst being 1 set out of their sats predictions I could understand , set 5 and 6 in our comp are the ones who struggle with English, May have English as a foreign language and the work they do is less challenging than sets 1-4. On the plus side the lower sets have smaller classes so they children can get more support. Our school also takes behaviour into account and some children have been moved set due to messing around or not behaving when with other pupils. So it seems sets in 95% statistically, 3 % behaviour and 2% based on set size and year size.

although there was an interesting issue in year 8 sets, when one teacher taught their class the test and they all performed well, leading to one unsettled class dominating the top set. Come year 9 this was all resolved as true ability was identified in year 8 tests, where this teacher could not walk them through the exam in advance 😀😳

Original poster
itseasy123 · 14/09/2023 18:18

Just an update.
He asked the teacher if the sets are ability based and was told yes and he was asked why he was asking; to which he said well my end of year report said I was exceeding. She seemed quite surprised he was in her class with exceeding and said she would look into it.
She came back to him today and said unfortunately there is nothing she can do about him being in her class this term but that there will be assessment after half term and with the marks he's previously got if if he performs at the same level then he should move up after Christmas.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 14/09/2023 18:41

Reasonable outcome.
However I would get him to check in with friends in higher sets occasionally as to what they are covering so when the end of term assessment happens he hasn't missed anything out.