How accurate was the impression you formed of senior school, before your kids started?

[Orangeinmybluelightcup]

With the power of hindsight, how accurate was your impression you formed of the senior school you chose for your dc? The impression you got from things like open days and local chat. If you had concerns, were they correct or misfounded? Or did it look great but actually it's not been?

Bump, anyone?

I knew DD would struggle with a mainstream High school, we applied for a Girls selective school with 200 student in the whole school and she got in but we didn't get a scholarship so couldn't take up the place.

The school she ended up at didn't have an open day just a virtual tour online as DD moved up in 2021. The school has 200 students a year like most comps.

I had a good understanding of what the school was like as I worked in a neighbouring secondary school down the road, I knew its behaviour was better than at the school I worked at. What I didn't know about (and didn't realized we would need) is how fantastic their Send department was, as predicted DD didn't cope with the school environment and was diagnosed with ASD in year 8, I can not fault the support they've given at all. DD is also extremely gifted and they have stepped up with challenging her in the Gifted, Maths and Computer science clubs after school.

In my opinion a lot of schools have changed in the last 5 years due to funding. DD started in 2019 and there's 16 less teachers but PAN increased. Gone from 28 TAs to 12 in a school with 70 EHCP students. This is an 11-16 school so no sixth form. Behaviour has gone down massively in every school and although DDs school has amazing leadership, it is no exception. They've been forced to instill draconian measures to reign in behaviour. It's lead to lots of suspensions and exclusions. They used to have a far more restorative system but there's no staff or money for that anymore. In general it is a completely different school to one she started in in 2019. Its sad as it was an amazing school. It's still a good school but it is sad to see what the funding crisis has caused it to become. I suspect a lot of schools will be like this. Heads are having to make difficult choices month to month so schools are changing faster than previously in my opinion.

Starting y7 in sept
I think ours is already more disorganised than i expected. Theyve made a mess of bus organisation.
We dont know what clubs will be offered.
Theres been no help for dd with sen
Obviously no timetable but no sight of.one to show dd
Dont know what pe will be done each term so may have to buy the footbal boots

@Busornobus67 Have you looked on the school website for information on the curriculum, last year is probably on there and it'll likely be the same.

No one at the school I worked at bought football boots especially for school, those that already had them bought them in but otherwise they all wore trainers.

It's not unusual to not get the timetable until the first day, they tend to spend that first day with their form teachers and getting to know their way around the school.

Have you contacted the SENCO? Highly likely they'll be working over the holiday, you should find their email address on the Send policy on the website if not easily found on the website.

Lots of schools offer a tour of the school for children with Send on the first inset day back after the holiday to reduce stress and anxiety.
Although it is quite possible that the SENCO hasn't come across your DDs diagnosis/ reports yet to read through, there can be a delay getting information from their previous school and quite often information isn't put on the system for a few weeks. Unless the child had very challenging or substantial difficulties where we knew in advance teachers worked without knowing the needs of their year 7s for the first month or so. When your DD gets her timetable I would recommend emailing her teachers if she has very specific needs, very briefly outline what her challenges are if relevant and what things have worked for her in the past.

wow, on the board !

It started exactly as we thought, but changed a lot when it joined an academy trust, plus it got bigger. Covid had an impact too.

Quite a few sounding like they got worse.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup surely that's not surprising, my school was lovely before covid, then we had a series of leadership changes due to staff ill health along with conditions in most schools being awful right now.

I appreciate I'm part of the problem as I left teaching this year but class behaviour of children is getting worse, not all of the children ofcourse but the extreme behaviour is far more extreme than it was a few years ago, being sworn at 5 years ago was fairly unusual it became a normal occurance before I left and I received rape threats and all sorts. Some days I would be the only teacher after they had a day of supply, classes were being doubled. The children who need intervention to help access the curriculum can't have it as their TAs are off covering lessons, only children with EHCPs get their 1:1 even though lots of children with additional needs benefit from help. Not enough resources largely because the children wrecked and defaced the books, purposely broke science and tech equipment and no budget to replace it as the budget was spent on supply and staff wages following the unfunded pay rises and NI hikes etc. Most parents would be shocked at the behaviour in schools and the energy put into dealing with that means other things drop off the radar. After school clubs, school plays, revision sessions run off of teachers good will reduce as behaviour gets worse etc.

DDs school do all the extra nice things BUT that is because they have removed lots of the time consuming aspects of teaching, use lesson plans built by the academy Trust so someone just needs to stand at the front and deliver it - however this deskills teachers as they aren't think about their own lesson plans, there is no personalising the lesson to the class and none of the class books are marked (obviously other forms of assessing understanding are available) and they only mark assessments.

I don't have any experience of senior schools yet, so it's not obvious to me, no. I'm just trying to get a sense of how easy it is to get an accurate impression of a school based on open days and the things you might hear. @Singleandproud

@Orangeinmybluelightcup I think with state schools, it’s very difficult. Open days are not really going to answer detailed questions. If Dc has SEN, it’s more of a lottery and always has been.

Asking current parents is probably better. Ones who are sensible and reasonable. I would not like boot camp behaviour policies, but you might love them for Dc.

I found change of leadership makes the biggest impact. It sets the tone for everything. Recruitment, behaviour, academic expectations etc.

Dc1 has dyslexia and some issues with eye-brain team work and is a bit behind but loves school work.
Younger dc is currently ahead / exceeding.

School choice is,

1. try for grammar, there are several a bus ride away.
2. local medium-large secondary they can walk to. Ofsted requires improvement for sen and reading. New head no-one local likes. Turning into an academy. Lots of teachers leaving. It apparently does a poor job of selling itself at open days too.
3. bus ride to small secondary which is supposed to be good for dyslexia and says it's all about pastoral. But only 500 odd kids total and no local friends.

I really thought my eldest would get 'swallowed'up by the vastness of secondary school compared to the smallish cosy primary he went to, i was completely wrong.
At the time it was a smaller secondary school than others near us which i preferred and the secretary / head of communication at the school alongside the wonderful head learnt every childs name -this really meant a lot to me, my 2 other kids attended and my experience has been the same, i am very grateful for that.
When we were looking at schools i went on how it felt in general and how chaotic or not it was on open days and i always asked current pupils attending the open day what was their experience of the school.

Our big comp has massively exceeded expectations. 300 in year. I hear people say 'it's too big' blah blah but I get better feedback than primary and the teachers are all over performance as well as pastoral

My advice...ignore those who talk about a school they dont have kids at.
Only listen to sensible people who do have kids there

@Orangeinmybluelightcup From what you say, DC1 is not working at the level necessary for a grammar school. DC 2 yes.

I can see your concerns about the nearest school. I think you need to drill down with parents about what they don’t like. The school clearly wasn’t good enough before (RI but for what reasons?) but parents now do not, presumably, like the methods being employed to improve the school. However if that’s no chatting, uniform nitpicking, and what seem like draconian changes, it might not be where Dc thrive.

Im amazed any school can possibly be as small as 500. I assume that’s y7-11 only. 90 a year is normal PAN so do they take lots over PAN? Or are they 120 and have places? I don’t believe 500 on roll in a secondary is viable and must severely reduce subjects and other opportunities. I really would have concerns about this. Presumably you know Dc could get in, hence considering it.

Therefore I definitely would find out more about your nearest school. If they are RI for SEN, then they really will be expected to improve. So I might see if you can meet the SENDCO and ask about provision . Also parents often don’t like change so filter what they say. Are their Dc doing well? Are teachers in place to teach the subjects? Are they doing sport, music or clubs a good school should offer? Can they see any improvements?

Open days, that I went to, were very busy with parents. Hundreds and hundreds of them! So extremely difficult to form an opinion of the Dc in a school at all. However art and specialist room displays, general upkeep of school and friendliness of staff might be worth considering. Plus friends nearby might be worth a lot, but that depends on your circumstances: a car and time to get Dc to friends further away.

I think DD's school gave a fair impression of itself on open days.
As she was going from a tiny rustic primary to a large, selective school I thought she would find the transition hard - and she did.
The school has delivered an excellent education and has some brilliant teachers. But some of the behaviour was poor at times - especially in yr 7 & 8. Marked improvement by the following year and virtual personality transplants by yr11. Maturity is a wonderful thing.
I do get the impression that there aren't enough teachers though and the really good, experienced ones are edging closer to retirement or part time working. Not enough younger teachers coming through and the literal fabric of the building is crumbling.

Thanks @TizerorFizz !@TizerorFizz ! @TizerorFizzVery helpful post for me. Sorry my phone seems keen to tag you three times...

The local school is RI for reading and sen, exactly the things we may need for dc1. And you're bang on about local parents not liking draconian implementation of uniform rules etc. Which is the new heads way of trying for a culture change I expect.

Correct, the small school a bus ride away has no sixth form and reduced range gcse choices. It is trying to partner up with other schools in order to expand range subjects and buildings, so it could be on a growth path.

I agree Dc1 wouldn't get into grammar, but she's actually very hard working and loves learning. Dc2 could try 11+ and may well get in, as much as I can tell this early, so I may end up with them in different places which is a life complication.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup I live in a grammar county and very many families have Dc in various schools. They use public transport or school buses to the grammars. At secondary you really don’t go into school much, so as long as you get daily transport sorted, you are ok.

I would be wary of how the small school expects to survive. Partnering with another school might mean lessons on another site? This could also be difficult. Try and investigate further.

So many heads come in and start by changing uniform and smartening up the Dc. Existing pupils don’t like it, but yours won’t know the difference! I would try and judge by attainment and if you think Dc would get a good deal there. Are Dc doing well in GCSEs and 6th form? Are they taking real steps to improve SEN provision? What’s the evidence for this? I can see it’s difficult but do you trust this Head to improve the school? Clearly they need to and hopefully better behaviour will help. Would DD be ok with this?

Mixture I think.

My youngest is year 11 so I've had a fair smack at the school through 3 children.
I was much more nervous, as I went to a small school, whereas dh was more blasé as he went to a large comprehensive.

We chose the school because it was more laid back than the alternative (think detention on 2nd day for being late to a lesson when they'd got lost level strictness) and it is. A lot depended on their head of year. One was brilliant, one was okay and the last, after the first couple of interactions I had I concluded I was best to bypass them, which I generally managed to fairly easily.

I'd say it was similar to the impression/dh I had, despite changing the head of about 20 years part way through.

I found change of leadership makes the biggest impact. It sets the tone for everything. Recruitment, behaviour, academic expectations etc.

I 100% agree with @TizerorFizz on this point. DD2 went to a Secondary Modern which did not have a great reputation shortly before she started. But it had recently acquired a new HT and she put in place a very strong SLT while gently easing out some staff she didn't feel were up to the job.

HT wasn't very popular with the kids because she was strict and had high expectations of them, both academically and behaviourally. And she was strict on uniform and encouraged everyone to look smart and be proud of their school. Some parents didn't like this either, of course, but we felt she did a good job in setting the tone she wanted.

This school used to be one which everyone tried to avoid for their DCs, nowadays it is over-subscribed. The HT is still there so I guess more families brought into her cultural change than didn't…

I thought there would be more homework. I thought they would use laptops instead of pen and paper.

DD is dyslexic and will start Y9. I only recently found out they haven't given her a coloured overlay.

Her timetable changes lots.

The times she sees her tutor, has break and lunch have changed a few times too.

I'm autistic and I couldn't cope with that.

Sorry I don't think I've answered correctly.

Open day gave a great impression of school - what I would say that if things are going OK the amount of interaction you would have with the.secondary school compared to primary is v limited - so having kids in 2 schools isnt necessarily a massive problem. sounds like for you older one dyslexia support is going to be key - in my observation SEND support can vary a lot and doesn't necessarily correlate with other other things in a school

It's a good answer, thank you @blacknredsweeties