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Secondary education

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Original poster

Maths help please!

36 replies

Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 18:59

My year 9 son, who has dyslexia and ADHD, literally cannot do basic maths. He struggles to retain information hugely.

He had a tutor, who didn’t really make much difference and the school appear to have written him off. Plus he has labelled himself as stupid so doesn’t want to try.

I desperately want to try and help him over the summer so that he can start his GCSE course in a better position.

Has anyone got any ideas or recommendations? Stories of success with a similar kind of kid?

OP posts:
RoundedToast · 30/06/2023 19:02

Can you look for a tutor that specialises in kids with those conditions? They may have different teaching methods which are a better fit.

Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:05

Rounded It’s not an option financially, unfortunately. He already has a dyslexia tutor who charged £80/week.

OP posts:
Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:07

*charges

OP posts:
Azaeleasinbloom · 30/06/2023 19:10

No experience with someone of your son’s age, but have a look at the BBC resources - just go to their website and search for Maths. They have a few interesting looking resources on there.
Also search you tube. I have worked with older students and sometimes having someone totally different present the problems on line, makes enough of a difference.
Good luck.

BestServedChilled · 30/06/2023 19:13

Is dyscalculia the real issue here? The dyslexia might be causing him to struggle with word problems and multi step problems. And the adhd disrupting his focus. But if he has dyscalculia that’s another problem again.

Can he visualise a basic maths problem? Sometimes learning to think of problems visually really helps

Tired6789 · 30/06/2023 19:14

Could he have dyscalculia?

user1497207191 · 30/06/2023 19:22

If you can get them motivated, there are loads of resources on the internet, such as Corbett Maths, who do YouTube videos and you can print off worksheets. If they've struggled at year 9 Maths, go back a couple of years to see if they can cope with year 7 level. Concentrate on the basics, i.e. basic fractions, basic percentages, long multiplication, long division, solving VERY simple equations, prime numbers, etc. If they struggle with year 7 level, then go back a couple of years to primary year 5. It's well worth going back to where they started to struggle!

School maths moves very quickly and if you're not confident with the fundamental basics, you're basically wasting your time trying to do the more complicated stuff, as everything comes back to the basics. It's like a tree or a house - if the roots/foundations aren't sound and secure, the tree/house will be unstable and fall down.

Slightly different, but our DS was a whizz at Maths in primary and year 7 secondary, but struggled with year 8 and ended up with a very low score in the end of year 8 tests as he was completely lost and out of his depth. We printed off Corbett Year 8 worksheets and sat with him to watch you tube videos over the Summer holidays going right through the year 8 topics again, and he hit the ground running at the start of year 9 virtually top of the class, and never struggled again in later years. In fact he's just going to graduate from Uni with a first in Maths!

Far better to go back to a time when they were coping and then moving forward again having tackled the bits they didn't master the first time around. It makes learning new/more complicated topics more manageable.

Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:42

Thank you so much for your responses.

He has been tested/assessed within an inch of his life and has an EHCP. Dyscalculia has never been suggested or diagnosed.

My feeling is that it’s a retention problem and self esteem.

OP posts:
Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:48

He has said in the past that the teacher moves onto something harder but he hasn’t got the easy stuff. He can’t remember what they did last lesson let alone last term.
This just goes on and on and he loses motivation. As a result, he’s very resistant to doing anything at home.

OP posts:
lyingonthesofa · 30/06/2023 19:56

@Atomsaway £80 a week! Wow!
Happy for you to DM me- mainstream SEN Maths is one of my favourite subjects to talk about and problem solve!

Barleymilk · 30/06/2023 19:57

I'm the same,year 10 ds who just doesn't get maths. We got him a tutor all through lockdown but that didnt help and son said it was a waste of money.He is working at a 3 in gcse.
My other son didnt pass gcse maths a few years ago. It can't be the school as my daughter did pass.
Its frustrating but then I didnt pass either,nor my parents! I'm currently taking son around colleges to look at courses,so many out there so I'm trying not to worry.

Springbecamethesummer · 30/06/2023 20:04

Try T L Maths on YouTube, my son highly recommends him, he is an actual maths teacher and downloads lots of free tutorials.

Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 20:06

@lyingonthesofa
thank you so so much! I will definitely take you up on that kind offer!
@Barleymilk

yes, it’s a worry. I hope your son finds a career that he loves without maths!

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 30/06/2023 20:06

Repetition is key.

With DD1 right up until y11 she would look at me blankly if I asked how to do percentages as if she had never heard of them, but she got faster and faster at remembering each time.

I'm now going to say controversial. Sometimes I think I did my DD2 a disservice by getting her to Grade 3 standard for GCSE maths & Eng lang, as it meant that in college she has been destined to resit, whereas if she had got a 2 she'd have been on Functional Skills.
(Not all colleges offer Functional Skills level 2 either making kids progress from FS level 1 to GCSE.)

Anyway. Repetition. Calculator skills (2 calculator papers, 1 non Calc). Start with stuff he can do and praise praise praise. Get the CGP revision guide for the foundation paper so you can see what topics there are. Patience.

TeenDivided · 30/06/2023 20:09

lyingonthesofa · 30/06/2023 19:56

@Atomsaway £80 a week! Wow!
Happy for you to DM me- mainstream SEN Maths is one of my favourite subjects to talk about and problem solve!

Would you care to give your opinion on pros and cons of GCSE maths v Functional Skills level 2 for a dyslexic slow processor poor stamina who gets a reader but who is OK at things like algebra but struggles more with wordy questions?

lyingonthesofa · 30/06/2023 20:17

@TeenDivided
If algebra/graphs are not an issue, I don't think there's that much to choose between them. As long as they can get on to the next course they want to do, I'd say go with whichever is easiest logistically to access!
There's pros and cons for both - as there always is!

Original poster
Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 20:21

I was told by our head of maths that it’s better for dyslexic students to do gcse maths as opposed to functional skills because the functional skills is very wordy.

OP posts:
PlaygroupWoe · 30/06/2023 20:30

Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 20:21

I was told by our head of maths that it’s better for dyslexic students to do gcse maths as opposed to functional skills because the functional skills is very wordy.

I don't think a GCSE is less wordy than functional skills!

The main difference imo is lack of Algebra in the functional skills.

TeenDivided · 30/06/2023 20:32

DDs LSA also said functional skills very wordy. But also it is shorter exams ...

Ladyoftheknight · 30/06/2023 20:45

Dyscalculia causes frustration and retention issues- look into it please.

Return2thebasic · 30/06/2023 21:17

Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:48

He has said in the past that the teacher moves onto something harder but he hasn’t got the easy stuff. He can’t remember what they did last lesson let alone last term.
This just goes on and on and he loses motivation. As a result, he’s very resistant to doing anything at home.

Echo to what @user1497207191 said, if you can go through his current year contents yourself and see along the way which basic concepts need revisit, it would make a difference. It's very difficult to follow the speed of progress in class once your weak spot became drawn into the next level build-up. And no teacher can cover all the students of all levels. Even tutors are variable.

Mine is only in Year 5. I've got involved in his maths at Y2 when I accidentally found he couldn't even do addition/subtraction properly while his whole class had already moved on to multiplication. They just didn't practise sufficient for the basics to sink in. After I helped him at home for half year or so, he became quite capable.

But when the 11+ preparation kicked in, again I realised the basics are still very feeble and blurred. I started go through some maths papers with him question by question. For each question, I tried to expand to the wider maths knowledge (fundamental ones). I wasn't greatly hopeful, as he has lots of vacuum spots in his understanding - ADHD, never had the habit to ask why and think deeper beyond the textbook formulas. But I was surprised he grasped quickly and started tackling other papers himself with much better results.

He has short working memory too. (So his comprehension is even a bigger struggle.) But I always believe in maths, if you understand well, you don't have to memorise a lot. And I try really hard to convince him there's merits of putting down workings instead of holding everything in mind.

As @user1497207191 suggested, try to go through his current level to spot the weaknesses and then go back to earlier years to reinforce what's been missed. It will work.

Return2thebasic · 30/06/2023 21:23

If you yourself is ok with year 9 level maths, try to do it together with him. With you working on his side as a peer, he would be more motivated as he would see you less than just "lecturing" but actually "getting your hands full too".

Mine finds amusing when I got it wrong and I praise him when he got a better way than mine solving the problem.

jazzybelle · 30/06/2023 21:37

user1497207191 · 30/06/2023 19:22

If you can get them motivated, there are loads of resources on the internet, such as Corbett Maths, who do YouTube videos and you can print off worksheets. If they've struggled at year 9 Maths, go back a couple of years to see if they can cope with year 7 level. Concentrate on the basics, i.e. basic fractions, basic percentages, long multiplication, long division, solving VERY simple equations, prime numbers, etc. If they struggle with year 7 level, then go back a couple of years to primary year 5. It's well worth going back to where they started to struggle!

School maths moves very quickly and if you're not confident with the fundamental basics, you're basically wasting your time trying to do the more complicated stuff, as everything comes back to the basics. It's like a tree or a house - if the roots/foundations aren't sound and secure, the tree/house will be unstable and fall down.

Slightly different, but our DS was a whizz at Maths in primary and year 7 secondary, but struggled with year 8 and ended up with a very low score in the end of year 8 tests as he was completely lost and out of his depth. We printed off Corbett Year 8 worksheets and sat with him to watch you tube videos over the Summer holidays going right through the year 8 topics again, and he hit the ground running at the start of year 9 virtually top of the class, and never struggled again in later years. In fact he's just going to graduate from Uni with a first in Maths!

Far better to go back to a time when they were coping and then moving forward again having tackled the bits they didn't master the first time around. It makes learning new/more complicated topics more manageable.

This. Brilliant.

Soontobe60 · 30/06/2023 21:50

Atomsaway · 30/06/2023 19:42

Thank you so much for your responses.

He has been tested/assessed within an inch of his life and has an EHCP. Dyscalculia has never been suggested or diagnosed.

My feeling is that it’s a retention problem and self esteem.

Has he had his working memory assessed as part of his EHCP assessments? I would check with the SENCo and request an assessment for dyscalculia at the same time.

CasparBloomberg · 30/06/2023 22:08

Ds massively struggled with early primary maths and subsequently diagnosed dyslexic & adhd. His issue with learning was how it was taught, quick blast of a topic then onto the next, but it was how the school did it and they weren’t adapting for his inability to recall without thoroughly engraining it. The school denied he couldn’t do it saying he met their targets, but that’s because they tested at the end of the topic, not a week later by which point he couldn’t remember it (he had same problem with spelling too). His self confidence and self-belief were shot. He just believed he couldn’t do it.

we went back to basics at home, probably 3 years behind his school year. Repetition, grasping the building block solidly before going onto the next bit and then repeating as often as necessary. He just needed more time to grasp it, think about it in different ways, help applying and recalling it. It isn’t possible to feel confident at maths if basic concepts aren’t thoroughly understood.
He eventually had enough of the basics in enough depth that he could take on the new concepts at school and by secondary was working at same rate as the class.

On a positive note. He has just completed a-levels in maths and further maths and was predicted As. All that early work gave him confidence but also he then didn’t expect to find maths easy, he knows it takes hard work, he just enjoys it when it all comes together.