11+ admissions for outside catchments

[DavyJane]

Hello,
I am a mum of a 7 year old child and have just started thinking about whether to move houses keeping in mind secondary school options or not.

I understand most schools have catchment areas, which mean that the children wihtin those areas need less marks than others to get a seat in the school.

In the case of children who live outside the catchment area and score really well, I understand the school will still offer a place if they score above the required level.
In this scenario, when the child accepts a place at their school, is the child expected to move into the catchment for the school to accept the application?

I am looking at schools the following schools in particular -

1. Henrietta Barnett School
2. The Tiffin Girls' School
3. Nonsuch High School
4. Wallington High School for Girls

It would be great if you could shed any light on this. I am outside the catchment for all of these.

My worry is that, if my child were to write and get into any of these schools (by some stroke of luck) whether we would need to move houses when she is in her Year 5/6 to just be able to accept admissions into the secondary schools.

Kind Regards
Davy Jane

You just list newly all the girls grammar school in London rank by their exam results. (maybe just missing Newstead in SE London).

With such kind of dedicated interest from age 7 I think it is worth spend extra time go to individual school to check the admission policies in details.

Also noted that these admission policy will change from year to year so you probably won't be certain it is the same in 3 years time.

Thank you @PreplexJ

I am confused with the wordings of some of these school policies which is why I sought help in the forum. Please could you let me know if the below policy (Wallington's) states anywhere that an application from a child outside of the catchment and satistfying the scores will not be accepted cos of the address?

Because this is what I've heard but I cannot see the wording in the document, really sorry for the super long post ....

"4. THE ADMISSIONS PROCEDURE FOR A PLACE IN YEAR 7
4.1 In order to be eligible for entry to Year 7 (subject to the other provisions of this Policy), all
girls must sit and pass all parts of the two stage Entrance Test. The first stage is the
Selective Eligibility Test (hereafter the ‘SET’) and the second stage is the Nonsuch and
Wallington Second Stage Entrance Examination (hereafter the ‘NWSSEE’ and, together
with the SET, the ‘Entrance Test’).

4.2 The SET comprises two multiple choice tests: a Mathematics test and an English test.

4.3 Those girls who meet or exceed the pass mark in the SET will be invited back to sit the
NWSSEE, which comprises two tests: one in Mathematics and one in English, neither of
which is multiple choice.

4.4 Candidates must pass both parts of the NWSSEE to be eligible for a place.

4.5 The marks in the NWSSEE will then be added to half of the aggregate mark achieved in
the SET, with each part carrying equal weight, to create a total score in the Entrance Test.

4.6 The total scores will be used to create ranked lists.

4.7 In the event of the number of eligible applications exceeding the number of places
available in Year 7, the School’s selection criteria will be applied (see Section 5).

SELECTION CRITERIA FOR YEAR 7 ADMISSION
5.1 The selection criteria for admission to Year 7 described in this section will apply until 31
December in the year of entry.

5.2 In the event of the number of eligible applications exceeding the number of places
available in Year 7, places will be allocated in the order set out below:
5.2.1 Children who are Looked After Children who achieve the minimum qualifying threshold or above in the entrance test or whose score
is up to 10% lower than the standardised pass mark for the SET and the minimum standardised
pass marks in the NWSSEE Maths and NWSSEE English.
5.2.2 100 places on the basis of the score in the Entrance Test in order of highest score,
irrespective of home address.
5.2.3 Up to 35 places will be available for Children in receipt of Pupil Premium.
5.2.4 Up to 110 places linked to our catchment area. This will be in order of highest score
to those whose permanent place of residence on 31 October 2023 (the deadline for
submission of the Common Application Form) is within a 6.7km radius of the main entrance
to the School building. (Distances are verified by the London Borough of Sutton using a
Geographical Information System (GIS) computer program). The number of places allocated
under this criterion will be reduced by the number of places offered under the criteria in
sections 3.4, 5.2.1 and 5.2.3.
If parents/carers plan to move house after the Common Application Form (CAF) has been submitted, they will need to check
with the local authority they are moving into as to the latest date they can make a change to
their CAF in order for the new address to be used for the allocation of places. Documentary
evidence will be required by the Local Authority.
"

Those 100 irrespective of address include non catchment and no you do not need to move. Bear in mind logistics of school day and travel though, for extra curricular and social activities.

Thank you @LIZS . So it means that while the application will get accepted while the child is in Y5 going on Y6, there is enough time to scout out for houses and move before Y7 starts at any rate right?
I thought these schools expected you to move at the time the application is picked up itself :))

No you don't need to move at all. Schools don't give you a place conditional on moving house. If you're in the 100 that score high enough, you have a school place even if you live in Cornwall for the next 30 years, but it's down to you to sort out how to get your child to the school.

You are not required to move house if you are offered a superselective place.

They are irrespective of home address, during admissions and afterwards. Some people do however choose to move, because a pig of a school journey can be really detrimental.

You would need to move before end October to be considered for a catchment place. These are obviously more plentiful, whereas for a top 100 place you are competing with all those in and out of catchment. Note you need to check each LA criteria for residency in catchment, some grammars require a move well before then ie. Bucks and no other address.

Tiffin Girls are very clear on their website that since 2014 when it was introduced, no girl from outside their Designated Area has got a place so if you are going to be applying there you need to look carefully at a map! They don't have the equivalent of section 5.2.2 in the Wallington criteria you listed - you need to check each school.

pretty sure you have to live within 3 miles of Henrietta Barnett by the October of year 6 to get a place now?

Newstead was within 9 miles at the time you applied I think?

So it's not a matter of applying everywhere, getting the results and then moving.

“pretty sure you have to live within 3 miles of Henrietta Barnett by the October of year 6 to get a place now“

Not really there is still over 50% of the latest intake for HBS is out of catchment. If you score high enough in the second round, you can get the school offer even you live in Scotland. Not sure in a few years time, HBS 3 mile catchment is much smaller than same Tiffins 10-15 miles catchment area, so if HBS not changing the admission policy it is unlikely there will be more than 100 within catchment pupils.

Also strictly speaking by the admission code, no school can deny you sitting the exam for first round even you out of catchment, they just discourage it. However if the out of catchment chance is slim I don't see why should try it unless you just want a free mock (exam tourist?).

Tiffin doesn't offer any out of catchment places. So if you want a place there you'll need to move into the catchment area by whatever the date is on the admissions policy.

As for the rest, Nonsuch and WHSG do have a set number of places for OOC. Think it's 80 for Nonsuch and 100 for WHSG. For HBS, it's whatever number is left after the LAC, PP, 3 mile radius kids get a place. I think this year it was about 50 or something. But there's no set number for that. It can go up and down each year.

"Tiffin doesn't offer any out of catchment places."

It does offer in the case of undersub, it just never happened before.

And since there's more than enough girls in catchment, it's never going to happen so basically: it doesn't give OOC girls places.

They're even discouraged from taking the exam.

"They're even discouraged from taking the exam"

But they can not legally stop exam tourist to take the exam. So yes, some parents still had their DD sits every year, it is a free mock. The same for other similar schools.

Well yes. That is why I said discouraged and not forced. They can do anything they want.

In fact, if too many OOC take the first round exam (and it those candidate are good) , it will be an admin disaster for TGS to determine the second round number to sit.

The operative issue is where you are living when the application is made. And that is between a date in September and the end of October of year 6 - you normally have to register your DC to sit the entrance exam by a date at the end of year 5, but this is categorically not an application for a place, whatever nonsense schools like HBS may spout about having '3000 applicants' (they only allow 300 to be eligible to apply, so not unless 2700 sets of parents either intend to appeal when their application is rejected, or are just plain deluded, which I suppose is possible...).

@MarchingFrogs not exactly true for schools that have explicit out of catchment places or historically in catchment places are less than PAN. HBS is one of the example. In the past 4 years every year, less than half of the applicants in the top 10% first round are within catchment as its catchment area is small and interest is high.

It is possible, in an extreme scenario, the same happen to Tiffin girls too, but Tiffin has a much bigger catchment area so if they set the cut off sensibly it should not happen.

For HBS it makes sense only for the top 300 of the first round apply in the CAF form, but your address can be anywhere in the country for both sitting the exam and making application to the school. It is just get less priority compared to in catchment applicants within the top 300.

"less than half of the applicants in the top 10% first round are within catchment as its catchment area is small and interest is high."

Actually is less than 15% of the final top applicants is within catchment, nowhere close to half.

Thank you for this. The numbers for Nonsuch and WHSG (80 and 100) are these recorded in the school policy. I tried looking it up and couldn't find it. Where can you get these figures from?

@MarchingFrogs So by September of Y6, since the applicants will have the score in hand, is there a way of knowing of where they stand in terms of ranking. For instance, if a child has x marks, is there any indication of knowing with a score of x outside catchment what are their chances? Or will that be known only once the application has been submitted and the school responds back?

The exam is in September - to comply with the Admissions Code, schools should make results available by the deadline for submitting the CAF, so not necessarily also in September and most selective schools notify parents of results sometime in October. Schools should be able to give so.e indication as to the lowest criterion / lowest score within, or whatever is relevant, obtained a place in previous years. Schools are not allowed to say, Your child has a place at this point, although some schools in the London area (and in Lancashire, it would seem) do seem to have difficulty with the Admissions Code.

Have a look on the Elevenplusexams site forum for reports of previous years Admissions to various selective state schools.

@DavyJane normally for out of catchment applicants in London Grammars , even the first round ranking and scored is known, you won't know too much on the chances when you fills in the CAF by the end of October. You can only guess based on historical information that the school is obliged to give you if requested.

For Wallington and Nonsuch, you currently get told your score a bit before the deadline to apply. You can find out online what scores were good enough in past years for an OOC place. Obviously it varies each year. If your child has scored very highly you know you have a good chance. If they are around the cut off from previous years you will have to wait and see. Nonsuch usually has a slightly higher score. There won't realistically be time to move into catchment once they get their score and before 31st Oct, so you will be relying on an OOC place or committing to move earlier before you have results.

@BendingSpoons thank you for the information