Quality of teaching in your grammar school

[fcsale]

With the decline in the number of teachers, I am curious to find out both the quality of and the number of vacancies in your DC's grammar school.

• Selective/super selective
• General area of school (eg South East)
• Are you happy with the quality of teaching?
• Are there are lot of teaching vacancies and if so which subjects?

My DC are upper primary age but I've been searching for schools financial benchmarking and found one of the super-sective schools around my area (SE) spending at the lowest 10% of similar schools (not sure what that truly means) for teaching staff and wondered how other schools are like.

schools-financial-benchmarking.service.gov.uk

I agree with this.

1. Selective, there are no super selective here.
2. North West England.
3. Very happy with the quality of teaching, subject teachers teach the subject they are qualified for and a lot have PHDs. Very few children achieve less that 7-9s in their GCSEs but I can’t remember the stats at A level.
4. There are no vacancies although apparently the food tech teacher is retiring at the end of the year.

There is very little pupil premium but the school receives massive donations from successful old boys. There are only 2 grammar schools (one boys, one girls) in the area and no private schools and the grammar schools do cream off the ‘best’ teachers which isn’t good for all the other schools. Behaviour is excellent and there is absolutely no tolerance of anything less.

I guess the school u refer to is in a university town so demographic some how very different.

oh I wish there were more grammars in the south east

But that entirely depends on their further education, University course they decide on studying as they don't get that earning immediatly after A levels.

@RedFluffyPanda All Grammar schools are permanently in marketing mode. When my own parents were pleased to get me into a selective Grammar in the 70's, they heard the number of pupils heading to medical school or Oxbridge and stopped listening. At the time we were supposedly the top 15% of the population (by 11+ results) further whittled down by interview of us and our parents. Five years later a number of my peers left with no qualifications and two years after that, another dozen or so left with no A-levels.
My daughter's school was cannier and had me convinced until results day, when some pupils who had done badly were treated shabbily. It didn't matter to the school as they had the requisite Med School, Oxbridge and Russell Group places confirmed already.
Talented, hard-working girls need little guidance, they have beaten significant odds to get in to begin with, with places four or five times oversubscribed. Many parents have their children's lives mapped out decades ahead (Hospital Consultant/Law firm partner/Senior banker in their mid to late thirties).
I can only think of two girls going to work immediately after A-levels and one of those had already appeared on the West End stage by her early twenties.
By the time my daughter left school, she had spent 4,000 hours on homework and some girls will have done 50/60% more than that.
For those that like it, their work ethic will help them succeed no matter what life throws at them, my only sadness is how few of them expect to be able to schedule time for personal happiness in their careers and it seems rare for old-girls to have children before their late thirties, if ever.

If we look at the leavers destination of the grammar schools we discover that they decide most often on the career paths that

( sorry my message was cut through)

If we look at the leavers destination of the grammar schools we discover that they decide most often on the career paths thatr are not necessary immediately very profitable.
Resident doctors earn very low salaries, so are scientists, young journalists. It is most often later in life when they have more sounded CV and more qualifications ( e.g. specialist doctors) when it brings better salaries. Studying business also doesn't guarantee you a fortune. Market is full of people with those with top MBA and great experience.

It takes more than splendid work ethics and hard work to be affluent. Often you have to trade in your values...

As for your last sentence, it is also about men who are not in the rush to start families.

Also, the challenge is that we don't know what jobs will come to existence when our grade 5 kids will be adults. AI will change a lot.

South East, super selective, all girls.

DD is just finishing her a-levels (it’s co-Ed at 6th form) so pretty much finished. Teaching in some subjects has been amazing- so consistent and thorough, really energised teachers. Maths and sciences has been patchy with good teachers going to very top sets only (and there are 6 sets, so the margins are very small actually). Some pretty poor teaching in these subjects which I’ve had to plug with tutoring.

Crap effort during lockdown- I was amazed (and then swiftly gutted!).

Loved the fact it was single sex throughout school, it’s given the girls a much more confident outlook I think.

Overall, I’m glad I sent DD there. It’s not been perfect, but the high standards and expectations have suited her. And the alternatives around here are dire.

Heavily oversubscribed London super selective. I'm on the staff. Teaching is fairly good but morale is low and we have a large number of vacancies with many excellent long-standing and committed teachers retiring early or leaving teaching full stop. We only used to have problems recruiting for certain subjects but now most subjects are becoming an issue and we don't get to be picky on who we take on.

Over 40 years ago I was at a direct grant school, gdst. The spend per head was way below the figure for grammar schools - one of our maths books gave calculations in foot poundals - moving a 1lb weight a foot, as opposed to the SI Nm. Must have been from the 50s. Some of the buildings were a serious fire risk and would've gone up in seconds if someone had dropped a fag end.

Can I ask why? Is it behaviour? Pay? Paperwork?

Hardworking, intelligent people will always find it easier to find acceptable employment than others, irrespective of technological and other changes.
As @Bibbetybobbity says, girls become more confident when studying with other girls, boys are noisy and are keen to speak, even if they have little to contribute.
My view is that the additional confidence makes them more unprepared to compromise their careers for partners or children.
Salaries do ramp up and markets are competitive but articles like the following are influential https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10027397/Linklaters-offers-trainee-solicitors-starting-salary-107-500.html
These are very impressive young women who deserve their good fortune and rarely have to settle for less than they ask for.

Two whole grammar counties not enough for you?!

Both my dds attended grammar school in the South East.
Some teaching was great and some of it was rubbish just like any other school tbh.
Pupils did well because they were often more motivated and the expectation was that they would get good exam results.

It’s the same in all schools including independents.

The workload and demands on teachers are bigger and bigger.

In state schools, real term spending cuts over a decade or more, plus real term pay cuts if over 20% over 10 years reduce morale.

Schools have less and less cash. Every little thing that could be cut has already been cut. Any support service staff have been cut to the bone so all these jobs fall on teachers now. There are less resources. Timetabling is more and more difficult and means the experience of teaching is more difficult even with lovely compliant children. Heads are constantly stressed about going into the red and how they can reduce staffing budgets. Experienced staff can’t get jobs at the school can only afford a newly qualified member. Less people are training and staff are leaving in droves. When the school can’t recruit, people have to teach things that are not really their subject.

These are issues for all schools. Grammars have less funding than other schools due to less pupil premium money. They have probably been some of the last to see teachers leaving and the biggest recruitment difficulties but it’s endemic everywhere now. I’m sorry, but people just don’t seem to realise how bad things are.

@Hardtime this is DailyMail revelations. Tabloid. They publish many odd articles. Many of them are crypto marketing. If you look at GlassDoor it doesn't look that great in that quoted company- see the image.

As a holder of two master degrees including MBA from a top US Uni, I am a great enthusiast of education. However, nobody ever asked me about secondary school at the interview. To be completely honest, they don't ask about education at all and focus on my 25 years of job experience. Maybe they ask freshly graduated people.
I know many people like me. Many many in London Finding a job in a tight market is not easy. For a graduate with no experience whatsoever...even more. The companies pay for expertise and not for a postgraduate diploma. I remember my beginnings... I went through a lot to study first in UK ( I wasn't born here) and then in US. Reality out there is cruel. They had thousand of young graduates like me.
One thing which my education gave me is to stick to reality.

And yes, I was a lucky one. I had/have career but I also gave birth to my son at the age of 40.5. Most of my friends tried too late.

@WombatChocolate Oh I know, I'm currently defending schools on the discipline thread. I think parents either don't believe it or have their heads in the sand because what is the alternative?
My DD is moving to a specialist independent dyslexia school in Sept. Funded by her EHCP and astronomically expensive. They seem to be the only ones not struggling to recruit, but their salaries are high and they have up to 8 kids in a class, mostly 3.

@WombatChocolate just to add, the reason I asked you is I rarely hear from grammar school teachers. It's most often those teaching in comps, but your reasons make perfect sense. Are you looking to leave? If so, what subject do you teach?

My DC went to selective grammar schools in Trafford. The teachers were excellent (except for computer science for some reason). They are desirable schools to work in as they don't have the discipline issues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66078820

Saw this news today thought it is relevant, I'm struggled to understand how 2.5k can help the situation.

While on the surface this looks good - I am very disappointed with this. This is only for early career teachers - what about all those teachers who have been teaching five plus years? What is there to keep them in the profession. Would be much better off to increase the pay and terms and conditions of teachers. This is a short fix and I don't think it will work.

Clearly.

Hi. Found this thread whilst researching for grammar schools in the south east. My DC have not attended school in the UK, however we are now aiming for DS sit for the 11+ Kent test. Would be very grateful if I could get in touch with some grammar school teachers in the Kent area to get an opinion of the teaching and behaviour of students in general.