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Secondary education

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Original poster

Why would a secondary school NOT offer triple science GCSEs?

77 replies

OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:08

A friend's DD is in year 7 and they've discovered that the school doesn't offer triple science GCSEs only combined science GCSE. The school does have a have a sixth form and offers biology, chemistry and physics A Levels. This is a big, well funded school that offers a range of different GCSEs and A Levels plus a lot of vocational qualifications.

Why would the school only offer combined science GCSE, and does it matter if the DC wants to go on to take science A Levels at the sixth form?

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/06/2023 11:12

Is this a recent change or has it never offered triple science? I'm aware there's a huge recruitment crisis in teaching at the moment and I can only imagine it's worst of all trying to recruit Maths and Science graduates. Could that be it?

JemimaTiggywinkles · 23/06/2023 11:18

Possibly due to not having enough subject specialists for gcse as well as a level (particularly physics). If you are in an area which is particularly struggling for teachers (ie somewhere expensive to live so that teaching isn't attractive) it is probably this.

Or they may think that breadth of study is too limited if students selected separate science as an option. If the kids only take 8 GCSEs it is more likely to be this.

Wrt it being a problem - it depends. The teachers at that school will be used to pitching A level to begin at the combined science level. However, if DC move to a different school (where the A level students almost all take separates) it may be more difficult - particularly if the DC is taking more than 1 science A level.

Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:19

It's certainly a possibility as friend didn't know a lot about the school before their DC stated but I'd be surprised in this case.

OP posts:
BoohooWoohoo · 23/06/2023 11:21

Science teachers seem to be hard to recruit atm.

My dd did Combined in a school that had Triple then went on to do A-level Biology and achieved a B.

Papernotplastic · 23/06/2023 11:22

It would make me concerned that it’s not focused on academic subjects. The number of vocational qualifications being taught at a school sixth form would reinforce that impression.

Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:23

The DC only do 9 GCSEs, and one of them has to be RS which I find ridiculous. So it could be for that reason as 6 are already taken up by 'core' subjects leaving them with only 3 'options'.

I thought the same about if they moved to a different educational establishment to do science A Levels. I know at this stage that won't be happening and they'll stay on for sixth form.

OP posts:
Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:26

It's an interesting school. Very different to where my DC went. It's got more money than it knows what to do with. It's in what could be considered to be a deprived area, certainly high unemployment. It's facilities for the vocational qualifications look amazing. And it's very big on telling everyone how many DC get into Oxford and Cambridge.

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 23/06/2023 11:28

@Papernotplastic maybe they are an inclusive school, also trying to attract as many students as they can in Sixth Form to help with funding.

Think more schools are reducing GCSEs to 9.

Many students across the country are being taught Science by teachers who are not Science specialists (in fact many subjects are being taught by teachers who are not specialists in that subject)

toomuchlaundry · 23/06/2023 11:32

@OutOfSite that must be a very unusual school to have more money than it knows what to do with

FeebasAquarium · 23/06/2023 11:33

The dcs school offers triple science but only to the top 30 kids in the year - I’ve no idea how common that is, but the bulk of them will be doing double.

Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:36

@toomuchlaundry I agree, and I was sceptical at first, but the school have just spent many thousands of pounds on a state of the art drama facility. The school my DC went to couldn't have even dreamt of such a thing!

OP posts:
Myjobisanightmare · 23/06/2023 11:37

My immediate thought is that the separate GCSEs already in no way shape or form prepare pupils for how difficult the A level sciences are so if I had a kid there and they wanted to do science a level etc, I’d have to have a game plan move schools, pay for a tutor something

Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 11:37

It's an Academy, no idea if that makes a difference.

OP posts:
Simplelobsterhat · 23/06/2023 11:43

Entry requirements to Alevel are usually Bs in double award higher tier combined science in my experience. In our area it is certainly the case that not all schools offer triple, only the most academic leaning. Yes I guess they will be at a slight disadvantage at Alevel compared to those with triple, but if the school doesn't offer triple to anyone that will be less of an issue. Very few young people want to take up 3 options with science so it might not have been popular enough to run, or lack of teachers, or just want to offer more breadth.

I've found out in my daughter's school they don't offer triple as an option. Everyone does double and then the very top set will be offered triple but in the same teaching time as the others do double, if you see what I mean, which seems high pressure !

FusRoDah · 23/06/2023 11:49

It was a while ago now but I did double award science at GCSE (my school offered the 3 separate ones but I didn't choose it at the time). I've now got a science PhD so it can't be too bad!

OP it's not what you asked, but I would say the one thing that actually would have made science A levels easier is doing maths A level too. I did chemistry and biology A level and the people doing maths found chemistry much easier than I did. And I would imagine it's probably a must alongside physics.

caringcarer · 23/06/2023 12:14

You've answered your own question 'they offer a lot of vocational courses'.

Original poster
OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 14:17

@caringcarer it doesn't answer this question though, as stated in my op

'does it matter if the DC wants to go on to take science A Levels at the sixth form?'

Any thoughts on that?

OP posts:
Runnersandtoms · 23/06/2023 14:22

Ours (grammar) did the opposite, everyone had to do three separate sciences, no option for dual award. My English/art/music/drama excelling child would have been much better off with dual award science.

Bleepbloopbluurp · 23/06/2023 14:29

My children's school
(independent, no resourcing issues) encouraged most pupils in my child's year to do double on the basis that it makes no difference in terms of options afterwards. Pupils who take double can still do science A levels if they want, and while double is a slightly shorter course, the school has to spend a bit of time at the start of A levels getting everyone (including new joiners) to the same place anyway. DD was advised that the "benefits" of triple only really exist if you really enjoy science; otherwise you might be better off spending that time on something else.

Gloschick · 23/06/2023 14:39

My DH went to a very well regarded comp who only offered double science. He then got straight A's in Bio/Chem/Physics/Maths a-levels so it didn't hold him back.

user1469908585 · 23/06/2023 14:40

At our (Indy) school, they can do either. I’m told by teenager that has just finished GCSE’s that if sciences are not your strongest subject, its easier/better to get two good grades with the combined exams than three possibly lesser grades with single sciences.

I think they as for 8/8 to carry on with A level.

Gloschick · 23/06/2023 14:40

Sorry, which not who

titchy · 23/06/2023 14:48

Most sixth forms are more than happy to have students taking science A levels who only have double award at GCSE if that answers your question.

I wouldn't be so sure the school has more money than it knows what to do with - the school my dcs went to had some amazing brand new facilities built while they were there. However these were funded by the local authority in return for agreeing to increase their PAN. This school probably has a similar arrangement for capital projects. The amount they get per pupil won't be any different, and the salary they pay their staff won't be much different to national pay scales.

You can of course check income and expenditure and staffing levels on the Gov website if you want.

A school in a deprived area that has a good focus on vocational qualifications AND gets students into Oxbridge sounds phenomenal - exactly what the comprehensive system was designed for. No wonder they're shouting about that from the rooftops.

Dunno why you're sneering...

caringcarer · 23/06/2023 14:48

OutOfSite · 23/06/2023 14:17

@caringcarer it doesn't answer this question though, as stated in my op

'does it matter if the DC wants to go on to take science A Levels at the sixth form?'

Any thoughts on that?

A secondary school will only offer a certain amount of subjects. If they fill their subject slots with a lot of vocational qualifications there are less slots on the timetable for academic subjects. Schools have a finite number of rooms they can teach in. It will be a disadvantage at A level as Double Award covers less content than Single sciences so at A level a student would be seeing some topics for the first time whereas a student who did single sciences will have seen them before at GCSE so might already have a decent understanding of them. More academic schools tend to favour single sciences whereas less academic schools sometimes favour vocational qualifications with more coursework and less exams.

WhiskersPete · 23/06/2023 14:52

It looks better for results. If the brightest in the year all do triple, the combined science results are lower. Although Ofsted don't approve of not offering triple.