Double science vs triple science GCSE

[JaukiVexnoydi]

(Please forgive my old-fasioned use letter grades here)

DC is in year 9 and the end-of-year exam results are coming through.

DC is quite techy-geeky and I always thought would be great at sciences, but prefers applied things like computer science and design technology rather than the pure sciences. Results in Physics and Biology are terrible (D or E grade). Chemistry slightly better (at least C). DC is at a selective school where the general expectation is that B is a reasonable minimum standard and everyone would be expected to get at least a few A grades. It's reasonably clear that DC did not do enough revision and preparation for these exams and is capable of better but these are 3 quite hard subjects and it's going to be a lot of work to get all three up to a reasonable standard over the next 2 years

GCSE choices for next year were made back in March. Currently signed up for
Maths
English lang
English Lit
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Latin
Computer Science
Design Technology
Drama

The options for science are either to do the 3 separate stand-alone sciences or a double certificate "combined science" which is seen as the basic/easy option for those who will be specialising in non-STEM areas at A level. I thought it was obvious that DC should do the triple option but I am having second thoughts and considering whether to ask for a switch to the other option. The current selection gives 6 STEM gcses and so would still have 5 after the change if so.

If DC drops down from triple science to combined dual science is that going to close off those 3 sciences aa A level options? Those choices are a couple of years away and I don't want to jump the gun. prior to these grades coming through I would have guessed it would be reasonably likely that DC would go for one "pure" science to go with CompSci and DT at A level. Is dropping to combined a bad idea if we want that door open?

You can still do science A levels after combined GCSE, but he will need high grades. The combined still covers all sciences, but in less depth. This means he will need to do equally well in all 3 subjects to get 2 decent grades. Grades for combined will either be equal, or one 1 grade above the other eg 5-6 or 6-6.
He may need to do some catch up over the summer after GCSEs to be ready to do an A level course.
With DT and CS A levels maths would work as a science. If he is looking at more engineering type careers he would likely need physics A level.

Agree. Except i wouldn't say it is less depth, rather it's less breadth.
The topics that are done are done to the same detail. Separate sciences just has some extra topics.

Combined Science is not an "easy option" OP. The content is similar in terms of the level of difficulty, but there is less of it. It's possible to take A level science with Combined Science at GCSE, but you may need to move to a different sixth form where this is seen as more normal.
It hasn't been mentioned yet, but there are 2 tiers for Science GCSEs Foundation (grades 1 to 5) and Higher (grades 4 to 9). For Combined Science you have to take the same tier in all the subjects. However if you take 3 separate sciences, it's possible to mix tiers and take Foundation for some subjects and Higher for others. If there is a big difference in grades between the different Science subjects, your dc may be better off taking 3 separate sciences because the grades are calculated independently or each other. This is because if you take combined science the 2 grades are averaged across the different subjects, so your overall grade could be pulled down by your weakest subject. I hope this makes sense.

Agree with others.
Combined science doesn't exclude a science A level, but it does have less topics, so you might find some gaps - especially if you stay at a school sixth form where separate science is available.

Do school have the triple science in the option block? ie do you need to pick another option if you drop to combined? What else would this be.

Echoing others that Combined Science is not an easy option - it's just an option with less science!

The main question is "Does DC like science and/or might they want to do it at A level or need it for future career?" If the answer to this is "yes" then sticking with triple science is sensible. If DC doesn't particularly like science and won't "need" it later, then dropping to combined should be fine.

A couple of other points
-Although it's possible to move onto A Level from Combined Science if DC is planning to go to a sixth form where most (or even all) students have come from a triple science background then it's going to be harder for them. If they are intending to stay at current school, you should ask for the school specific advice

-If this is a selective school and DC is not performing that well at science currently, the decision might be taken out of your hands.

(Incidentally if DC is thinking of Computer Science and DT, I'd think Maths would be a more obvious 3rd A Level than a single science).

I'd not recommend a student to do A levels in a science if they had not done the single sciences because they will be missing a whole unit of work covered in single science GCSE but not the double award. That said unless your child wants to choose A levels in science they be better off choosing double science and an alternative additional GCSE in something they find more interesting. Triple science is 3 slots on timetable and double science usually 2 slots.

At dcs school you get the same timetable allocation for triple and combined so from that sense the combined is an “easier option” as the triple students do a third more content in the same time. If you get extra timetabled time to do triple then it’s not an “easier option” to do combined science and, say, German or comp sci, rather than triple science.
It is possible to do A-level science without triple but there will be gaps and if everyone else in your class did triple then it really is up to the pupil to put the extra work in. If they decided to do Comp Sci, DT and one science it would definitely be possible to self study the missing content of the science course in the summer between y11 and y12. It doesn’t close the door, but it does make it more difficult to open, especially for someone who is getting D/E grades anyway.
I have a y9 dc in a non selective comp and if he gets the equivalent of D/E in any of the end of year science tests then he will not be given the option of triple and will have to fight like a dog to even do the higher combined papers. At my brothers dc school you can pick triple as one of your options irregardless of your likely success as they get more timetabled hours.

At my brothers dc school you can pick triple as one of your options irregardless of your likely success as they get more timetabled hours.

Whereas in my DC's school the weakest students don't get the option of triple even though it has more timetabled hours.

Would be useful for OP to clarify if triple science has more timetabled periods and if her school expects a minimum level of attainment for DC to take triple.

This comment was true for the old syllabus but no longer true for the new 9-1 syllabus. Yes, there are some gaps at A level if you take combined science, but parts of those units missed out in the old course are now included in the new one making A level more accessible.
However as other posters have pointed out for Computer Science, Maths at A level is better than a stand alone Science.

Yes agree with @redskytwonight - OP is triple done in the same time as double (as at my DCs' school - so only an option for the more able) or is triple an option subject as at another PP's school? These things vary and it will make a difference - if it is done in the same time, then dropping to double will ease the workload for sure. If it is an option block then indeed, triple science is no more work than (for example) double plus history or French or whatever other option is taken.

BUT it is is crucial to note, as others have done, that double is not an easy option. I want to stress that so that, not least, anyone who does take double doesn't feel that their science GCSEs are less valuable. The exams are just as hard - simply there is less content to cover.

The point about tiers is key too - the foundation tier, capped at a grade 5 (high C if you prefer) is certainly an easier task and may be more suitable for your DC.

Yes you can take A level science with double - but there will be catching up to do and indeed, as PP say, if everyone else in the A level science group has taken double then it may be harder.

No one seems to have said this but if a child is achieving a level equivalent to a grade 2, 3 or even 4 in year 9, tbh I don;t think science A level is right for them- unless they make massive strides. A 7 is a minimum grade for science A level IMHO. And what does your DC think? You don't mention that. Are they hoping to take A level chemistry? They will need to do a lot of work in the next two years.

Take double science and leave it at 9

9 is plenty.

And I agree with a PP - someone getting Ds and Es in year 9 isn't going to be getting an A in Chemistry in three or four years.

If he likes science then geography gcse or a level would be a good one instead of Latin.

One advantage to triple if you have 1 weaker area is you can still shine into other 2 (my daughter is expecting 2 v high grades and one middling one!)

At our grammar school triple is the default option.

One of my best friends has a first in natural sciences from Cambridge. She did double science GCSE.

At our school they wouldn’t let ds take triple science with those grades, it’s top set only and B or more in y9 (we are still on the letter system in Wales).

Yes it was the two top sets only at dds academic school. Dd did double and is doing psychology and geography at A level (so 'soft' sciences) and is doing really well.

Triple is only offered to the top 2 sets (of 6) at DC’s school and even then very few kids in set 2 take it.
When we were discussing options in year 9 I was told you should LOVE science to take triple as you have so many lessons. Unlike pp it does take up a third option.

The local sixth form will let you do A Level with 6s at double or 6 in the individual science (and 7 in maths for physics).

Double science shouldn't preclude doing science A-levels later but worth checking any local requirements at local sixth form and colleges - though these can change it would give you an idea if they may be local additional requirements.

As DC school they only let 30 take triple science and it's ones with highest marks /consistently high marks - and some schools don't offer it at all.

I did double certificate combined science followed by 3 science A levels 30 years ago. It is possible but I would rather have done 3 separate sciences at GCSE.

At both of our schools Triple is discouraged if you are not on track for a 6/7ish in sciences.

I think the decision depends on how it's implemented at your school. Some allocate extra time for triple, others cram it into the same time as double with extra homework and pace.

My eldest has just been through the latter and it's been a real push. It's not that it's too hard, it's the volume and speed need to be kept up. She was drowning in Sci homework at some points and they were still learning content after her GCSE exams had started. I think she was unlucky and her school is quite pressuring, but made us question whether triple would be achievable for our very able but easily overwhelmed (autistic) younger one. However his school allocates extra time for triple, and is much lighter on homework generally, so he's going with that. Points like having separate grades are all good, but for us it comes down to nuts and bolts coping with the volume day to day.

Sixth forms have made it clear that triple is not required for science A Levels. I think there's an argument that it will be easier to catch up age 17, when you're doing 3 subjects, than cover the extra content at 15 when you're juggling 10. But I haven't tested this in anger and different children at different schools will experience it very differently.

At my DC's school everyone does triple except those in the bottom set and you're told, you don't get to choose. However, at the other highly regarded state school in the area everyone does double and there is no choice about that. Both schools offer A level sciences and both have plenty of pupils going on to Universities to study STEM subjects, so it's obviously perfectly possible to go on to a scientific career by either route.
There is also a fair bit of movement between local schools for 6th form round here so it's not particularly unusual for those who have done double science elsewhere to end up at our school in a class with those who have done triple.They tend to be pupils who have done very well at the double GCSE though and they probably do still have to work a bit harder. I'm not aware of any consistent difference by the end of the course though. Both my sons have friends who came in at 6th form with double science GCSE and did/are doing fantastically at A level. The "new" pupils are often high fliers who have chosen to move schools because of our school's reputation for science teaching though, so that may be relevant. I suspect it would be a very big challenge for someone who had not got high grades at GCSE as there is a huge jump from GCSE to A level anyway.
So yes, you can do science A levels after double GCSE and getting good grades at double is better than poor ones at triple. But I agree with the PP who said that unfortunately this kind of attainment in year 9 doesn't bode well for science A levels. Year 9 is still very young of course and things may change as he matures, but he is going to have to work very hard over the next couple of years to get up to the standard needed to have a realistic expectation of doing science A levels, whetger he does double or triple.

Dd did double science gcse

(Triple was a,twilight option she wasnt keen )
She did biology and chemistry a level
Got into medical school

(Did get high grades)
So double was no hindrance

Ds1 did combined, Ds2 did triple. Ds1 did an A level science, most of the class had "only" done combined, Ds got an A star but did get 9,9 at GCSE. Triple is usually offered as an option subject in many state schools to cover the content as they are teaching a mixed ability year group, some students sit the foundation combined, others the higher paper. Grammars or any entrance exam schools obviously usually have a higher ability cohort to teach so it is more standard for them to do triple science as a rule.

Ds2 was on an accelerator course so did combined, same school as Ds1. They finished the curriculum toward the end of year 10 and so 60 students from across 350 were chosen to do triple with an hour after school each week in year 11 to cover the content plus 30 minutes in form every day, he got 9, 9, 8.

Looking ahead to A levels, GCSEs sort of predict their A level grades, if they go in on a 6 then they are likely to come out with a C grade unless they really work at it. I think your son needs to know this now before going into year 10. Maths is the one where if you get a 7 at GCSE you are most likely to come out with a C/D at A level. That is just due to not having the foundation of knowledge to build on. The harder he works now, the better the GCSE grades, the better the A level grades and the more doors that are open to him university wise. Entry grades for uni and the lowest they take applicants in on.

A levels usually require a 6 to continue science or maths but ask the sixth form if they come in on that grade, what are they likely to leave with.

Dd did physics at a level from double science (plus maths and electronics) also degree

I'd also suggest considering a living language rather than Latin. Unless heading for divinity at Oxford or classics it's for prestige not usefulness

Latin is v useful if going into science or medical careers as so many words have their roots in Latin.
Separate science is a 1/3 more content in each subject and does make the jump to A level easier. However half my year 12 class took combined so will not stop progressing (I teach chemistry).
If he likes science then do separate ones.