How necessary is tutoring at top schools?

[roses2]

We’re looking at secondary schools for DS and DH wants to apply to the top schools. We’re using Atom Learning extensively for exam prep.

My worry is where does this stop. Once he’s in - how likely is it that the average child will continue with a tutor (on top of private fees) to keep up? Is tutoring still used extensively for GCSE, A level, other years etc?

I am struggling to see how these schools maintain such good grades when I know in order to get in the first place kids are tutored heavily!

If the child is average and only just scrapes in as they had an exceptional day then it’s not the right school for them. In those circumstances then yes the tuition will have to continue just to keep up.

However, there are many bright students who don’t need further tutoring BUT their parents still do it just because everyone else is.

And then remind yourself that there are thousands of children in regular comprehensive schools with no tutoring to support and they still come out with all 7,8s and 9s.

If you get the right school that meets the needs of your child then, no, tutoring is not needed. Speaking as the parent who turned down a place at a top 10 school for DD for her backup choice and she’s still on track for all 9s. No tutoring.

"However, there are many bright students who don’t need further tutoring BUT their parents still do it just because everyone else is."

I belive this is perpetual, not every subject though for everyone though.

If my DC were at a private school and I had to pay for tutoring on top, I'd wonder what on earth I was paying school fees for.

It is just the same as a lot of prep school kids get extra tutoring.

And for me the same view.

You are paying a prep school to prep your child for selective entrance tests.
It shouldn't be necessary to pay for extra tutoring on top - it rather implies the school isn't doing its job properly.

One of my friends is a tutor and has tutored children at my DD's selective school, so it does happen. But I honestly don't know how we would find the time for my DD to be tutored - there's so much going on at school and she has out of school activities too.

My kids are at an academically selective private school. I'd say there's two groups; one who feel the need for tutoring from prep school come what may as a way of sustaining (in their mind) competitive advantage and those who top up if needed.

I'm pretty anti-tutoring (partly as I think parental help is adequate for many GCSEs). But I've paid for about five French lessons so my son could practise French speaking. And the same for maths as my son had missed quite a few concepts because he was in the top set and the pace was too quick for him to keep up with everything. (I asked for him to be moved down a couple of sets too). He didn't have any tutoring for A levels and my other son hasn't had any tutoring.

I think it depends on the make-up of parents at the school (ours are on the pushy side) but I'd say there's always a hard core set that will want regular tutoring, however good the school is.

Maybe the school didn't do a good job, maybe the competition is high, maybe just the hype of the parents, maybe the kids really want an academic stretch.

It is an optional thing. The key is: would you be regret if the outcome is not what you wanted?

My DDs are both in a London private school with a bit of a hothouse reputation. They each had 6months tutoring to do the entrance exam but none before of since. With long days and a commute, there isn't time for more and I don't want them to be stressed with extra work.

So I reckon I'm paying fees for the school to sort things and not need tutors. Both girls do their homework independently and seem to be keeping up with all lessons etc.

I agree with other posters - if you're paying for your child to attend a private school and paying for tutoring - your child is in the wrong school, or the school isn't doing its job.

Good, honest schools will say this to you

"Good, honest schools will say this to you"

Most of the top schools probably won't mind as the league table position is more important.

Well I've been in the room when heads of 2 highly ranked girls schools said this, so some of them are honest

It is really about what they do not what they say.

A lot of top schools also say no tutoring required for 11+ exam in their open day... you can give it a try..

This is my worry. The kids get good results mostly because of the additional tutoring, not because the school is doing what parents think they are paying for.

Preplexj
A lot of top schools also say no tutoring required for 11+ exam in their open day... you can give it a try..

No additional tutoring for DD for entrance exams - her prep school prep'd her which is what we paid it to do

Any school would (unofficially, of course) support tutoring, it simply means less work for them! They also tend to push children to tutoring by putting them under pressure unnecessarily. It is very naive to think that if you are paying for the school, the school would happily do all the hard job of teaching.

The school result (GCSE or A level) is really a product of the following factos:

cohort ability (how selective is the first place), parents involvement (tutor or pushing culture ), teaching quality/resource as well as subject choices.

I would say the first factor has the greatest explanation power.

One of the key service prep school provide is 11+ tutoring.

The school head is delivering the message (no tutor) to students from state /private /prep schools.

This is simply not true. I teach in a 'top school'. We absolutely don't support kids getting tutoring. It can quite often do more harm than good (tutors sometimes teach the wrong skills, wrong curriculum etc). If we think a child needs extra support, we will provide it ourselves (at no extra cost). But we can tell parents until we're blue in the face that they don't need tutors, and there are always some that do it anyway.

Or that the parents have unrealistic expectations. Not every child has the inate ability to make Winchester/ Wycombe/ St Paul’s.

@DPotter , agree but some schools do not teach as they said they would. They say they prep but talking to parents from the last 4 years all the super selective secondary offers had extra camps…Maths, Creative writing, etc etc. We know girls in Year 2 getting 1-2-1 netball, cricket coaching to get to better teams plus school sport clubs and weekend clubs.
Boys with football academy training and holidays trainings overseas.
Same with music etc.
Not all prep schools teaches to the same level. Our friends’ in all boys or coed primary preps had clear and fair instructions through out the years to manage expectations. Girls only schools seem very vague and all is lovely until they are told there is an issue at last term of year 5, leading to massive tutoring over the summer holiday.

Or the parents believe their kid had inate ability, but worry about other kids (with "less" inate ability) who do extra tutoring to take away their DCs opportunity to make Winchester/ Wycombe/ St Paul’s.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/primary/4829253-views-on-tutoring-prep-school-kids

I would also suggest that tutoring in preparation for an entrance exam (typically 11+) where pupils need to be confident in both technique and timing is different from tutoring to keep on top of the GCSE curriculum, for example.

Even very academically capable children may need tutoring in order to prove their abilities in an entrance test, but once in a selective school, they shouldn't need regular extra tuition in order to succeed.

I teach in an academically selective private school where around half the intake at 11 comes from the junior school (no exam required) and half from a range of local primary and prep schools. The school discourages extra tutoring. There are still a handful of very pushy parents who would tutor their children regardless of circumstances; however, the children who are most likely to need/receive regular extra tuition are those who joined the school at 4 or 7 and, to be honest, aren't academic enough to cope with the pace in the senior school.

In an ideal world, no pupil would require regular/continuous extra tuition as they would be in an appropriate school environment where they would be stretched or supported as needed. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen: in the state sector, owing to a lack of resources/staff, and in the private sector, owing to parents choosing schools for their children which don't really meet their needs.

Yes you’re right- it can become an arms race. I didn’t tutor DC for 13+ entry although they did do atom for paper familiarity. I do understand the pressure where there are maybe not many day schools locally and boarding is not an option but personally I just decided to let mine find their level and in both cases I feel they’ve ended up at a school that’s a good fit for them. DS in particular might have got into a more selective school with tutoring but at the same time I know he would have been an unwilling and sulky tutee so that probably tells me that Winchester etc is probably not for him, and that’s fine.