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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Encouraging a love of learning and instilling a good work ethic

18 replies

payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 11:45

Looking for kind and constructive advice as somewhat exasperated by DC2.

For context: Eldest child (Y12) is very middle of the road academically, probably below most of his school peers but usually present work that is relevant and well presented (maybe not always to their best ability but at least not slap dash).

DD2 (Y9), on the other hand (and I will probably be shot down on here but I think it's important for context) is very bright and so can usually wing it and still achieve scores in the mid 90s with minimal or no revision in end-of-topic and end-of-year tests (they might get scores in the 80% if it's a subject that DC2 has 'dismissed' as not important). We always encourage working hard but both DCs are independent and so we have let them get on with their homework etc without much input (but maybe we should have been more involved, but both DH and I have always been independent and with a strong work ethic).

Again for context, DC2 did get accepted to some top selective schools (state/private) and is on a high academic scholarship. For the 11+ we did have to nag them to do the work (same with DC1 tbh) as I know most parents have to, (there might be the odd child you read about on here who are 'motivated to do all the work themselves'). DC2 is sparky, fun with a great sense of humour and is able to communicate well with both adults and peers and is sociable in that sense.

The frustration with DC2 is that there is no sense of wanting to try their hardest or wanting to present work that is neat or to their best ability.

I just don't get it as DC2 is very interested in certain topics and will read non-fiction for enjoyment in their own time. I also don't get it as both DH and I always want to present work that is not only good content wise but also neatly presented. We are both hard workers and engaged in whatever we do.

I realise they're still young and that revision in Y7-9 is still developing but I wouldn't be at all surprised - and I know this is a long way away - if DC2 will end up with lower grades in their A-levels than their elder sibling as the eldest is working hard (and tbh deserves it if that is the case). For the GCSEs, I think DC2 will be able to wing it as their memory is excellent but I just don't think it's a great attitude to have and won't work once you step up to A-levels or uni.

I know families where children always seem revise hard and to produce the best or 'perfect' work and are super diligent. Many, I have to admit, are in families where there are either teacher parents, teacher uncle/aunts or teacher grandparents.

I'd like to know what the secret to their success is: what are the strategies and how to they communicate and motivate?

Please don't say 'they value education, encourage hard work, read to to their children and take them to museums etc etc (because we have done and still do all of this). We generally don't allow gaming in the week but the phone, admittedly, is a constant irritant and we do allow some TV in the evening.

What is the magic that happens in these families that so far has been elusive to our family?

OP posts:
Seeline · 15/06/2023 11:50

If you don't need to work to achieve good marks why would you? What would the benefit be of getting 97% instead of 95%?
I think very bright kids do suffer in this way - particularly with the step up to A levels from GCSEs. How do you 'learn' revision techniques if you already know the subject matter?

With regards to presentation, some people are just neater than others.

payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 12:47

@Seeline but it seems such a waste. Why not go for 100% if you're able to? It's sheer luck if you're given the ability and so why don't use it. And having a good work ethic will serve you well as you get older.

OP posts:
HawaiiWake · 15/06/2023 13:15

Maybe get the school to give harder questions so you can’t get to 80% easily and check revision techniques.
For example, chemistry questions and a few GCSEs ones and see if they can answers those?
Junior Maths Challenge have questions and solutions free online, do they do this test at school and get gold awards and into higher level tests?

Couchpotato3 · 15/06/2023 13:21

Both your kids are doing fine. Stop pushing for more. No good will come of it. Just enjoy and appreciate them as they are and stop comparing them with each other or anyone else's kids.

payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:00

HawaiiWake · 15/06/2023 13:15

Maybe get the school to give harder questions so you can’t get to 80% easily and check revision techniques.
For example, chemistry questions and a few GCSEs ones and see if they can answers those?
Junior Maths Challenge have questions and solutions free online, do they do this test at school and get gold awards and into higher level tests?

Yes, they do. But again, they don't like to practice those either.

OP posts:
payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:02

Couchpotato3 · 15/06/2023 13:21

Both your kids are doing fine. Stop pushing for more. No good will come of it. Just enjoy and appreciate them as they are and stop comparing them with each other or anyone else's kids.

Yes they are and they're happy and quite chilled but I just don't understand how you would not want to try your hardest? But I just have to let it go. As I say, we do let the kids get on with it and obviously don't let them know of any comparisons but I do find the lack of work ethic frustrating.

OP posts:
payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:03

Just to clarify, I'm looking for advice on how to best instil a love of learning and trying your best and instilling a good (but healthy) work ethic.

OP posts:
payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:04

payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:00

Yes, they do. But again, they don't like to practice those either.

Not sure about the difficulty of questions - the mean is about 60%, wouldn't be fair to set harder questions for many of the other kids.

OP posts:
payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:05

@HawaiiWake Do you mean I should set DC work outside what is given at school at GCSE level? I'm sure I could but I suppose I want the holy grail of my DC wanting to do it for themselves.

OP posts:
GloomySkies · 15/06/2023 14:06

Loving learning and working hard are not the same thing. Your child clearly is learning lots and retaining it. Working hard is hard work and can crush natural enjoyment.

Do they do anything that doesn't come naturally? If they do an instrument or a sport where they can't just wing it, but have to put in effort to improve, that will teach them routine and perseverance.

mynameiscalypso · 15/06/2023 14:06

I sound like your DS2. I've always done well without much effort. If I'd put more effort in, for example, I could have got a first at university but I was happy to do what I needed to to get a 2.1. Same with pretty much everything in my life. I think I'm good at balancing and not getting too stressed or overwhelmed by anything - aiming for perfection all the time is a recipe for disaster. The vast majority of time 'good enough' is all you need.

IrisGold · 15/06/2023 14:08

I had one like that. Had to be cajoled to work but always got good grades. Exceptionally bright.
They can wing it right through GCSEs but once at A level it came as a bit of a shock not to get 98% on an exam. After that the competitive instinct kicked in and work ethic changed. Ended up with Five A* at A level.

payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:17

@GloomySkies that's a very good point. I'm not looking for them to work extremely hard, but it would be good if they at least completed the revision tasks set as HW from school!

I'm definitely not after perfection. Perfection is a curse, I've seen it in others and it can be crushing and anxiety-inducing. Not good!

OP posts:
payitforwardalways · 15/06/2023 14:18

IrisGold · 15/06/2023 14:08

I had one like that. Had to be cajoled to work but always got good grades. Exceptionally bright.
They can wing it right through GCSEs but once at A level it came as a bit of a shock not to get 98% on an exam. After that the competitive instinct kicked in and work ethic changed. Ended up with Five A* at A level.

@IrisGold At least you could cajole him ha ha. But, yes hopefully at some point realisation that you can't just 'wing it' will set in. Thank you and well done to your DC - amazing results!

OP posts:
lifeturnsonadime · 15/06/2023 14:23

I just think they've got to want it for themselves.

You can advise them that things are important but you can't make them see it the same way.

What's that old saying? 'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink'.

Hopefully he will find the self motivation perhaps when he has clear goals in mind, that's what has happened for my DC. I don't have to nag him to go the extra mile because he wants it for himself.

Couchpotato3 · 15/06/2023 14:35

OK. My tips would be:

Lead by example - let them see you working, not idle

Expose them to excellence in whatever interests them - give them something to aspire to/strive for

Remove the roadblocks in their way, if you can

Encourage realistic expectations - sustained and regular efforts bring results. Real world examples to counter SM celebrity culture

No gaming consoles! Ever.

(My third is graduating from Uni next week, planning a PhD, older two are homeowners in their twenties. Work ethic is in their bones!)

ModeWeasel · 15/06/2023 16:14

OP have a look at Potential Plus U.K. for some pointers/research/resources

tennissquare · 15/06/2023 18:27

With a dc in year 12 you will know that you can "wing it" through GCSEs if you are bright and at a school who teaches the curriculum well and exam technique. You may be surprised at A level how good teaching and being able to perform well in exams also can carry you through A levels too. I would be thankful for a dd who is happy and content at school, you only have to spend a small amount of time in the secondary and higher education threads to see the pressures dc put upon themselves and the mental health crisis that follow.

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