Appeal basis help please!

[afemrobe]

Hi everyone,
We have our appeal next week, can i have peoples opinions on if you think the following are good grounds for appeal:

School capacity is 580 and anticipated number starting in sept is 553 so they have a
Spare 27 places across all year groups = 4.66% available

118 spaces allowed in year 8 - without appeal? How have the extra 2 pupils above PAN been managed?

New building so from Nov 24 capacity will be 700 - so 140 per year group.
Penalised for applying this year when capacity would allow her in next school year?

Only pupil in her school to not get a place at her first preference school.
MAT pupil
Prefect
Criw Cymraeg rep through whole of school.
Plays netball for team linked to the High school
Featured alongside 2 best friends in a photo taken on a transition day that was used as promotional material for open evening - massively got her hopes up!

Thanks in advance for your help! One stressed mum!

You need to show the detriment to her of not attending is greater than the detriment to the school of taking another pupil.

Spaces in other year groups don't help, though it does mean the school will struggle to make a strong argument around physical overcrowding.

Yes, ask about the 118 in year 8 - how are the forms arranged? How many per form? 116 would be 4 forms of 29.

New building from next year isn't really relevant for an intake this year.

On the face of it their argument doesn't sound like it will be super strong, but yours isn't either I'm afraid.

All your other points aren't about why she needs this school, they are just about who she is. It doesn't matter that she is a nice/academic/popular etc girl - why does she need this school? What does it offer, specifically, that she needs? Points about friendship groups etc aren't relevant unless backed up with some external evidence of why they are exceptionally important (in terms of mental health, for example).

Presenting officer here. Our school isn't full in older year groups, but the incoming year 7 is full - and that's what matters. None of our appeals have been granted.

We also opened a new building recently, which created more space and allowed the PAN to increase, but none of last year's appeals were granted in anticipation of that. That's because the school's case is about the quality of education and the staffing resources rather than physical space.

Bear in mind that the extra 2 places in year 8 may be managed moves or fair-access-protocol places. All school sometimes go over PAN temporarily in those circumstances, then drop back to PAN by not replacing students who leave. In the meantime, they "manage" by having more children in a class, which of course reduces the quality of education.

As pp's have said - concentrate on strengthening your own case - that's the most important thing.

The increased capacity won't apply to your daughter's year - they'll carry on through the school as a 4-form year, but the years following will have 5 forms. It costs more than a whole teacher to have an extra class, so it would only be viable to put on an extra class in an existing year group if they've got enough on the waiting list to nearly fill it.

You need to look at what they offer that the other school doesn't. Netball teams? More opportunities for Welsh? Subjects offered at GCSE (but with a good reason, not a sudden interest in textiles since you discovered it's a subject offered only at this school!).

"School capacity is 580 and anticipated number starting in sept is 553 so they have a
Spare 27 places across all year groups = 4.66% available"

Irrelevant. What matters is whether her year group is full. They won't be able to cite overcrowding in the halls, etc., but they will say, rightly, that the year group is full.

"118 spaces allowed in year 8 - without appeal? How have the extra 2 pupils above PAN been managed?"

This is worth exploring. Just be aware that they could answer that they've really struggled, that there was insufficient IT equipment, that science lessons had to be adapted, etc., which might work against you rather than for you.

"New building so from Nov 24 capacity will be 700 - so 140 per year group.
Penalised for applying this year when capacity would allow her in next school year?"

Irrelevant for this appeal. They may well also say that their teaching arrangements for this year group is x classes of y size and that from next year year 7 will have z classes of y size, but the class size won't change.

"Only pupil in her school to not get a place at her first preference school."

That's the rub. Sometimes people don't get places. It won't help your case.

"MAT pupil
Prefect
Criw Cymraeg rep through whole of school.
Plays netball for team linked to the High school
Featured alongside 2 best friends in a photo taken on a transition day that was used as promotional material for open evening - massively got her hopes up!"

All irrelevant, I'm afraid. Appeals panels are prohibited from considering the 'value' of a child to the school. They can only consider the value of the school to the child.

Compare both schools and look for all the positives of your preferred school. Base your appeal on that.

@Lougle thank you for taking the time to read and respond. The school we need her to go to does have a MAT provision, excellent languages provision for her to continue her welsh. County Netball team which she plays for. They also have excellent pastoral care which i feel she will need to manage the transition. Her mental health has taken quite the bashing from the school getting her hopes up by broadcasting her photo and referencing her in the open evening, she is notably withdrawn at the fear of the unknown with regards to whether she will be accepted where her life long friend is going. We had a fraught 12 months during the pandemic with insomnia and anxiety linked to separation and lack of schooling which i will quite frankly do anything to mitigate. I will be insisting on a phonecall tomorrow to clarify why we werent offered a place somewhere even though on checking the application it shows “place offered”. Again thanks for your help!

Her mental health has taken quite the bashing from the school getting her hopes up by broadcasting her photo and referencing her in the open evening,

Presumably you ticked a box to give permission for her photo to be used in this way? If not, you can complain, but it still won't help your appeal.

Literally every one of the umpteen appeals for my school cited that their child's mental health would be damaged if they didn't win. Yet none won. It's easy to say, but less easy to prov, and I suspect that often it isn't helped by the child hearing their parent slagging off their offered school.

@crabapl that isnt the case for us as we havent been offered any alternative school to slag off in front of my daughter.

I will be insisting on a phonecall tomorrow to clarify why we werent offered a place somewhere even though on checking the application it shows “place offered”.

When your letter arrived on national offer day, what did it say? e.g. when our borough can't allocate someone a school they say something like "Sorry we haven't been able to offer you a place, but we are confident we will be able to offer you one soon" and they include some reassuring stats. (If you didn't get a letter, perhaps your offer was lost in the post, and then you perhaps missed the deadline to accept it).

@crabapl this is our email (blanked out personal info / county) just in case.

"2.11 Where a place is available for a child at more than one school, the home local authority must ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the child is offered a place at whichever of these schools is their highest preference. If the local authority is unable to offer a place at one of the parents’ preferred schools it must, if there are places available, offer a place at another school."

You need to find out why you weren't offered a place somewhere.

Have you queried why it said place offered?

Why haven’t you been offered any other school? You should be offered a school. What have the local authority said about this?

I have rang 48 times over the last few days and emailed but have yet to get an answer as to why we havent. I genuinely hadnt realised they had to offer us somewhere as i only have one child and not had to do this before.

The fact that you don't seem to have been offered a place elsewhere may strengthen your appeal as clearly it is very much to the detriment of your daughter not to attend school at all!

That's from the Admissions Code for England. I suspect @afemrobe may be in Wales. It has its own code: https://www.gov.wales/school-admissions-code. I haven't read it to see if it has a similar clause.

It would seem this is the relevant clause, then:

"3.36 Where the application is being rejected, the letter must set out the reasons for the decision taken including the number of applications received, the number of places available, and the oversubscription criteria applied. If the refusal is because of the infant class size limit this must be made clear (see paragraph 3.46). The letter must also include information on the parents’ right of appeal against the decision, the process for doing this, and the deadline for responding."

Unfortunately, there is no mention that they must offer a school (unlike England) and they did tell you what you could do to remedy the situation (apply for other schools or appeal). I don't think this is going to help you at appeal, so you need to concentrate on giving the strongest case for your DD to get a place.

Have you applied for any where else?

Agree with @Lougle. However, if the appeal school has got your daughter's hopes up by using her photo and referencing her in the open evening, this may help (quite apart from being a breach of GDPR if you did not consent to this). Paragraph 3.33 of the Admissions Code for Wales says, "Heads or other school officials must not give parents an expectation that their application will be successful". You can argue that, whilst their actions fall short of actually making an informal offer, they gave you and your daughter good reason to believe that you would get a place and that therefore a place should be offered.

That should not be your only argument, but it is worth trying.

The op has stated on another thread she did not put any other schools on the application, if she did she would have a place offered at another school and could still appeal this decision for this school. I imagine when the appeal is rejected she will be offered another school. If your child is out of catchment and no sibling link then you are unlikely to win an appeal. Just because you go to a school and all the other kids get a place doesn’t mean you will, it’s where you actually live that counts not what primary you go to. I assume all her friends lived closer to the school. This is a shame but she will be ok once she starts at a new school she will make new friends. I myself went to a school where I didn’t know anyone as do loads of people we make new friends and it’s fine. Try to list the positives to your child to not make her anxious. If you get her a place soon she will have transition days and meet other children. My child’s school did an extra transition day for children that didn’t know anyone else (position my daughter is in) or not many went from their schools so they could meet others in the same boat. My child met a friend that day and they have been messaging. She will be fine kids are actually quite resilient.

@afemrobe is the school you applied to the closest to your home address? According to your local authority's admissions brochure they prioritise places on that basis:
https://www.flintshire.gov.uk/en/PDFFiles/Lifelong-Learning/Schools/School-Admissions/Guide-to-Education-Services-2023.pdf

@Whippetlovely Whilst I agree with your sentiments about making a positive approach to wherever you end up, If your child is out of catchment and no sibling link then you are unlikely to win an appeal. this is largely irrelevant information for an appeal (unless being used to show an error in the admissions criteria being applied). Appeals are about the detriment to the child and the school - siblings and being in catchment are rarely good arguments.

Just wanted to reply to thank everyone for their help, our appeal was successful today!

Well done!

Fantastic news. Well done.