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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Medical, social and pastoral criteria help

24 replies

Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 17:45

Hi everyone

Looking at secondary schools in Sep/Oct.

Would ADHD be classed as a Medical, social and pastoral criteria?

Secondary is a catholic school. We pass all criteria, baptised, attend church once a week etc (family church for over 30 years).

DD attends a primary school one minute away from the secondary school and 99% of pupils go on to this secondary school. Our church is linked to the Primary and Secondary school.

The school is over subscribed and I think it will go down to distance (we live 3 miles away) - they have 125 places to fill.

Would her SEND teacher be able to write the evidence to send to the school when applying? If she does not attend this school it will affect her and her education. She is used to this secondary school as they often pop over. She feels safe and secure. I know that if she has to go to a different, unfamiliar school she will not settle and will be jumping and fidgeting all over the place - setting her education back. She is behind in English and as expected in maths - catching up steadily - with a one to one when her attention wanes. Her teacher expects her to be at "expected level" by the end of the year.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Dacadactyl · 12/06/2023 17:48

Google the high school's name and "admissions criteria" for the year your DC is due to start.

I'd be surprised if the school don't have feeder schools. If they do, your DDs current school is likely to be on there and if so, it won't go to distance. But, check the criteria.

Also, the school places have been allocated for Sept 2023 entry already, do you mean for the year after?

PatriciaHolm · 12/06/2023 17:55

Look at the exact criteria and it's wording.

Realistically, probably not - it is rare that evidence shows that this, and only this, school can meet needs. You would need solid evidence - the criteria should make it clear what would count.

are you sure you wouldn't get in under the faith criteria, assuming they exist?

MargaretThursday · 12/06/2023 17:58

You can ask, but I think all schools would be expected to deal with ADHD, and the experience I've had with people asking about Medical, social, pastoral is that the criteria is incredibly high to get. I only know of one who was put in that category (witness protection) and a number who were refused that had what I would have thought were reasonable grounds (eg one child whose dm had just been given less than 12 months to live).

Look for feeder schools, but it may depend on area because in our area feeder schools are unusual, even when 99% of children go onto the same school, and I don't think there are any feeder schools locally for secondary.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:04

Sorry, we will be applying in Sep/Oct - DD will be going in to Y6 in Sept (where has that time gone!!).

It says they have 5 feeder schools because of their small catchment area (it does not mention the school names but I am 100% we are in one of them). But we are far out of this catchment area.

It does not mention int he criteria that priority will be given to any schools. The main points are based on church attendance.

Last year there were over 600 applying for these places.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:10

You mention a 1-1.
I assume she doesn't have an EHCP as you'd have mentioned that?

I am NOT an expert. I can't help feeling this doesn't seem very strong. After all they could do extra settling in visits in the summer term to familiarise her with the allocated school. When we have seen medical social pastoral needs discussed here before they seem to be more 'exceptional'.

However I would continue to gather evidence on good points about the school etc in case you want to appeal, because at that point it is about disadvantage not admission categories.

You need to be very clear on the admissions criteria and whether you would have got in in recent years.

PatriciaHolm · 12/06/2023 18:11

Their actual criteria will (must) list the schools.

Would you not meet the church attendance criteria? Of course in some schools that may not be enough.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:18

No, she does not have an EHCP - I did mention this to her SEN teacher and he said that the the child would need to have at least 20 hours of dedicated support to be considered.

I don't think she needs that many hours. I would like something put in place so they can continue with allowing her movement breaks and fidget toys and someone to explain the work if she gets overwhelmed.

Just hoping she gets through on the church attendance. I may speak to the head teacher to see what she thinks.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Superdupes · 12/06/2023 18:21

If the school has feeder schools then it doesn't matter where you live (well not round here anyway). People outside the catchment of our local good secondary school just move their kids into a feeder school in Yr 5 or 6 - and then get priority over people in catchment. My personal opinion would be that ADHD wouldn't count as a medical/social/pastoral issue as other schools could put things in place to help her with the adjustment. But it sounds like you tick all the boxes church wise so hopefully she'll get in based on that? I know what it's like when you're desperate for them to get into a particular school!

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:21

PatriciaHolm - we will definitely meet the church attendance criteria - but I am not sure how many other people will too who live closer.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:24

Somewhere, either on the school website or the LA site there should be info on places offered. Like this for hants: https://documents.hants.gov.uk/education/Year-R-Offer-Day-Data-2023.pdf
Hants provides the last 7 years of data:
You need to find that for the schools you are interested in.

TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:25

(sorry, I linked to yR data, but the second link shows data for secondary schools too.)
(If you say what LA you are in I can try to find their data.)

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:26

Superdupes - it literally makes me feel sick, thinking of her walking into a school she does not know at all, all on her own. There is one catholic school near us and the one we want is the second closest. I need to find out if church attendance and feeder school will be enough.

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 12/06/2023 18:28

Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:26

Superdupes - it literally makes me feel sick, thinking of her walking into a school she does not know at all, all on her own. There is one catholic school near us and the one we want is the second closest. I need to find out if church attendance and feeder school will be enough.

School should be able to provide how places were allocated for the past few years.

The LA may have it, as Teen says, but quite often for faith schools who are their own admissions criteria they will refer you to the school for the information.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:33

There is nothing online about how places were allocated. As it is a Faith School they have their own criteria - different from LA.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:37

I'm kind of worried that you are so worried.
Secondary school is a big step up in lots of ways and if she struggles enough for you to be so worried I'd be worried about her going up without a support plan in place, whatever school she goes to.
Remember even if friends are going up too she may not be in lessons with them, and she'll need to navigate around, be organised on homework etc.
I would definitely talk with the SENCO at not only this school but your other options about possible monitoring & support.

(ps You don't need 20hrs of dedicated support to get an EHCP. However the school does need to be not able to meet needs without it, and your primary school seems to be meeting needs.)

TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:38

Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:33

There is nothing online about how places were allocated. As it is a Faith School they have their own criteria - different from LA.

Contact this school and your other schools re previous years data. Do it now so you can get it this side of the summer holidays.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:43

TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:38

Contact this school and your other schools re previous years data. Do it now so you can get it this side of the summer holidays.

Show quote history

I will email them tomorrow. Shall I will just ask for data for the allocations from last year?

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:45

I'd ask for (at least) the last 3 years, so 23, 22 & 21, and if possible 20 and 19 as well.
If you just ask for 1 year you'll have no idea if it was typical or an anomaly.

You wouldn't be asking for anything they shouldn't already have to hand.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:48

TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:37

I'm kind of worried that you are so worried.
Secondary school is a big step up in lots of ways and if she struggles enough for you to be so worried I'd be worried about her going up without a support plan in place, whatever school she goes to.
Remember even if friends are going up too she may not be in lessons with them, and she'll need to navigate around, be organised on homework etc.
I would definitely talk with the SENCO at not only this school but your other options about possible monitoring & support.

(ps You don't need 20hrs of dedicated support to get an EHCP. However the school does need to be not able to meet needs without it, and your primary school seems to be meeting needs.)

She has other family members at this school (not siblings) and if she knows they are there it makes her feel more secure. I went to the same school too (many moons ago)! Yes, DD senco teacher said they do a comprehensive handover about each child and the child is taken to the school a few times beforehand to familiarise themselves (if they are offered a place).

OP posts:
Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 18:49

TeenDivided · 12/06/2023 18:45

I'd ask for (at least) the last 3 years, so 23, 22 & 21, and if possible 20 and 19 as well.
If you just ask for 1 year you'll have no idea if it was typical or an anomaly.

You wouldn't be asking for anything they shouldn't already have to hand.

Thank you. I shall do this.

OP posts:
Lougle · 12/06/2023 18:57

I agree with the other messages here. ADHD wouldn't be strong enough for SM criteria. Friendships and familiarity is also a really, really weak ground to prefer a school.

@TeenDivided raises a good point. Whatever school your DD goes to, you'll need to get a good enhanced transition plan agreed.

Original poster
Bowie6 · 12/06/2023 19:12

Lougle · 12/06/2023 18:57

I agree with the other messages here. ADHD wouldn't be strong enough for SM criteria. Friendships and familiarity is also a really, really weak ground to prefer a school.

@TeenDivided raises a good point. Whatever school your DD goes to, you'll need to get a good enhanced transition plan agreed.

Yes, will definitely need something put in place.

Thank you

OP posts:
RedFluffyPanda · 16/06/2023 01:10

Most of Catholic schools go by parishes. If you live and attend church within designated parishes then you should get in.

lazy2day · 16/06/2023 14:19

@Bowie6 If the policy says such needs must be "exceptional" then no, ADHD will not counts. There is nothing exceptional about it - all schools can manage it.

My school had several ADHD cases applying for exceptional circumstances, all rejected. Some of them appealed, but didn't win.

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