2023 11+ LATE start (independent or grammar)

[MyBoiledEggIsTooSoft]

Everyone seems to be so incredibly well prepared and/or tutoring their children….

I am belatedly starting to prepare DD for sitting the 11+ this autumn. We have atom learning (need to make it work) and I have ordered verbal /non verbal reasoning bond books, a set of 11+ maths papers, some vocabulary flash cards and some comprehension papers.

DD and I have also shaken hands on starting to prepare and to do a good job…

any tips at all?

or anyone keen to join in on a late start?

support, tips, comments all welcome !

I'm honestly quite confused what you're arguing against here! OP asked if she'd left it too late. I said that in my experience, the kids who need year(s) of prep don't necessarily thrive in those sorts of schools anyway. Kids who will pass with just a few months' preparation are clearly academically strong and very likely to thrive. This is just common sense!

If the OP's daughter is enthusiastic and self-motivated then she'll easily make time to do enough work between now and September. If she's reluctant, and drags her heels, and her mum starts thinking "oh god, we should have started this last year", then in my experience she probably wouldn't have been best suited to a very academic school anyway.

@MightyEagle

"if your child needs more than 6 months' prep, then they are more likely to struggle when they get there"

vs

" I said that in my experience, the kids who need year(s) of prep don't necessarily thrive in those sorts of schools anyway. Kids who will pass with just a few months' preparation are clearly academically strong and very likely to thrive. This is just common sense!"

to me these are very different message. Thanks for clarifying, agree this derail the subject.

@PreplexJ , thank you, that sounds like we are on the right track at least… We will keep working to improve and also check where we are with NVR and VR.

@MightyEagle my DD loves school and usually does everything herself. She is quite competitive, actually likes tests and does well across most topics (very well in maths, science and French) where she tries to score the highest on any tests. She is rubbish at arts, but that is about is.

I am reluctant to push her and make it boring (but realise that we now have to work). I am hoping to make it fun with a combination of bribes, pretending that she is a detective (VR and NVR) and just doing the written maths and English. I really hate these online things.

I will start researching schools tomorrow and write down deadlines!!

I was under the impression that at these super selective schools the students are not really competing with others, just with themselves. So it is not so much pressure, or is this wrong?

I've never heard that particular narrative before. The kids who are sitting on easy 9s/A*s aren't really competing against each other in that sense I suppose (the competition certainly does heat up when it comes to university applications though). But those kids who aren't in that top flight are very aware they're not. Some cope perfectly well with this. For others it's a huge blow to their confidence, especially considering that 7s and 8s would put them in the top bracket of most other schools.

FWIW I'm not meaning to sound overly negative about selective schools. I've chosen this same route for two of my own kids, but it was clearly not going to be the right choice for my third daughter (even though she might well have passed with some intensive coaching)

Ok, done VR,

score 127.

She might have gotten lucky, what do I know - she has been doing Atom on her own (and is very competitive so wants to do really well), so there could be a lot of preparation from her side.

we will do NVR tomorrow, look at schools and make a plan. I have these new and shiny books (and vocabulary flash cards) which arrived today. I may order a year 6 work book as well… she is very very good at maths but they haven’t covered algebra yet… someone said that they needed algebra for 11+.

thank you everyone so much for all tips!!! Please keep them coming!!

It sounds like your daughter is a very good 11+ candidate (especially if she's been enjoying quietly working away at it on her own!). She will definitely benefit from having seen some algebra. And don't underestimate the importance of reading, reading, reading - as wide a range of books as possible, and ideally including some older "classics" that tend to incorporate more sophisticated vocab.

@immergeradeaus sorry, I missed your reply!! Thank you - it seems that we should be able to get to an ok level for maths and VR, need to work at English and NVR is an unknown entity 😬.

We will start to crack on with this!!

Thank you @MightyEagle . We have read a lot of books together, but I started a new job so it fell a bit by the wayside… I will make a list of books to read together with DD and aim to finish them over the summer. Do you have any tips?

we are currently reading Artemis Fowl together (a couple of weeks left) and very open for both more bedtime stories and any read alone books…!

For comprehension, some useful tips in this thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4812102-worried-about-11plus-comprehension-score?page=2

Ooooh, thank you @PreplexJ !! That is a great thread! I will need to start dinner but am looking forward to continue reading later.

Reading together is so beneficial - you can go over tricky vocab to make sure she understands, you can discuss interesting metaphors, and powerful sentence structure, and it's great opportunity to discuss tricky topics together.

The Narnia books are obviously classics for a reason, The Hobbit is much more accessible than the rest of the Lord of the Rings, and I love anything by E Nesbit and Frances Hodgson Burnett.

@MightyEagle

It's a vicious cycle. If everyone is prepared at a high level, the DC didn't prep would be at a disadvantage against those that are super bright and prepped well. I can not stop others prep so I will have to prep too, so it continues.

Personally I would prefer prepare early, ideally at the start of year 5. It would have help me reduce the stress level and in the pilot seat of the preparation pace. Remember these are 9 or 10 years old kids, some will take encouragments (bribes) to bring up their motivation.

@MyBoiledEggIsTooSoft

Your DD have good potential based on the Atom scores. Good luck!

@MyBoiledEggIsTooSoft your dd has great scores for just starting out. She will be fine I am sure. Once she does Atom learning a little more her scores will def go up. And according to Atom a good aim for top school is above 120 (the super selective 125-130).

Hi OP, please don’t worry it’s never too late to prep - my dd started in the January of year 5 (exams in early Sept), tutored her ourselves, never did mocks and she got into all the schools she did exams for. I found this website and to be super useful:
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk
I scoured it and devoured all the advice on it.
btw what schools are you thinking of? As knowing this will help tailor the advice to what you need

Lurking in the forum for a long time, the most incredible advice from the above forum is the following post,

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?t=56957

I definitely won't try this at home, but yeah, a complete different extreme to some MN posts here.

I was trying to share my own experience- I found the website useful - esp the bit on the region we were applying for schools in and getting answers to maths questions etc.

@geoger sorry my comment didn't mean to say any negative on your post. As you can see my earlier reply in the same thread, I suggest the same website for exam information too. And I agree with your post.

Just want to highlights the big variations on the approach people took on this subject.

Sorry my bad I thought you were having a dig but then I read the link you posted…..omg some parents are crazy!!!
no child needs this level of intervention/tuition ever!

If you have time to read those divisive replies in the thread. The parents on that forum is more open to this topic, with more close to hand experience too. This was 4 years ago.

Good morning everyone, OMG - I only skimmed that thread… some parents are absolutely mental.

I did agree with the reduction of screen time though... I do feel bad about screen time. That is my biggest concern, that DD is a lot online (well, parental controls, atom, YouTube shorts, Roblox) but I think she is online much more than she should. I’m am trying desperately to work full time (I work flexible hours, so take a break for pick up, then work again) and she is looking after herself until dinner.

Back to 11+ …. DD is going to a sports camp so I can work (until 2pm) and then we will no the NVR and start looking at other preparations. And I will try to research schools.

@MyBoiledEggIsTooSoft Hi. Is your DD currently at state primary or prep school? I wasn't sure from your post. That will be a factor too.

I think you'll find that there are as many different versions of prepping for the 11+ as there are parents. Everyone has a different approach / different take (and you'll find the full range of views on here!) We know parents with kids at prep schools who are doing 5+ hours tutoring a week on top of school (madness). Equally there are parents on MN of bright state school children who've done very light prep and whose DDs have got into top super selectives (I don't know if you want to weigh in here @bonjourcrisette and @highropes !)

As other posters have said, so much depends on the child's academic ability and the schools you're targeting. And a lot depends on the experience you want your child to have over the next six months. Some parents feel that working a child very hard for a defined period of time is worth it for the potential payoff. Some feel that light prep / guidance / exam technique is sufficient and don't feel comfortable doing hours and hours of extra work. It's a personal parental choice. But those initial Atom scores are really encouraging - it's just about identifying the weaker areas and working on those.

Great that your DD is doing sports camp. Keeping extra curricular going is key. Let us all know when you've decided on schools as that will be a huge factor too in the kind of work you need to do. The key is Don't Panic!

I will be very careful on the word "Equally" - every child is different, understand the population (different school will attract different kind of applicants) and where your DD current ability and prep level fit in the spectrum is important.

In our area, there are hundreds of children tutoring at year 5 for 11+. DC was one of them last year.

Since Spring term, DC attended a popular group tuition lesson once a week for 90 minutes. The tuition group has pre-assessment before joining, majority of the children in the group are at "greater depth" in primary school, some from private schools. The tuition is to cover content more advanced than they may be able to cover at school in both literacy and maths subject.

The tuition also assign homeworks, together with Atom learning practice took my DC just over one hour a week day to finish and review.

During this time I also made time to do a lot of reading with DC and talking about it at dinner time at bed time.

DC secured the target Grammar place in the end. Not everyone attended the same tuition group got their first choice school, but most have got into Grammar (SET) or good private school in the area. Though I am not aware of any child did substantially less work secured a place in the year.

I feel lucky that we spend the time to do the preparation, had DC not do 11+ the hour day time would have easily gone to screen time. DC has developed the self-discipline and devotion that it won't have the chance to exert in the Primary school.

I am grad that it worked for us, so are the many other parents and children too.

Happy to chat with OP if she wishes, but am avoiding commenting as I know Preplex strongly disagrees with my relatively minimalist approach, and I have no desire for it to derail the thread as it has done others.