Low GCSE expectations - what have your state schools done to support?

[Testina]

I’m trying to support my Y10 niece who isn’t a particularly academic child in the first place, and who has missed a lot of Y10, attendance around 50% and I’m not sure how much attention she pays when there.

My view is that she should concentrate on 5 GCSEs to pass and write off the others. To the extent that I think she should be doing catch up work on those 5 and not even timetabled for the other subjects.

However, before my brother has a meeting with school to talk about their ideas and what’s possible, I thought it might be useful to know if there’s a common way that schools approach this. The attendance issue won’t be that common, but ability to pass 8 GCSEs must be. Is it a “thing” to drop subjects?

Any experiences, for idea, gratefully received!

Schools do not do this generally. My niece was able to drop some subjects but she had several major surgeries and ongoing severe medical issues that meant she needed to rest during the day. Even if they allowed this the school will not be able to offer supervision and extra lessons in just a few subjects.

If she only did 5 who would teach for her the extra catch up lessons in school? They carnt just magic up extra teachers, they will be busy with their normal classes. It sounds good but you carnt expect them to alter the teachers timetable for one student

Languages (French, German etc) frequently are the first to be dropped because many of those dropping a subject have conditions such as dyslexia. One of my dc, for other reasons spends a fair amount of time in learning support. There are a number of students who for various reasons are off timetable some of the week, however they generally have to work independently, with a little help from TAs, obviously some have a 121 if there is an EHCP. My dc often helps other students so your DN might be lucky. Sometimes a sixth form student might be asked to help be a tutor for specific subjects so that is something that might be possible.

Do you think that the reason for the absence is likely to have been resolved? Is there anyone in the family who can either spend time out of school 121 working through things or can pay for a tutor for some subjects?

@Plumbear2 I’m not suggesting that anyone magic up extra teachers, I’m asking other people’s experiences for ideas of how she might be supported.

For example, she currently has a card which allows her to leave class at any time and go to sit in a (manned) student support room.

It might be more productive for her to sit in that room with the homework worksheets provided by the maths tutor I’m paying for, than to go to say - Food Tech - which she hasn’t a hope in hell of catching up, and just adds pressure on her.

In my own child’s state secondary, there are intervention English classes that are deliberately timetabled alongside French with the view that French is less likely to be a good subject for someone with poor English attainment.

I am not “expecting” anything. I am asking what other schools do, in the hope that it’s something my brother can discuss.

We found you could drop 1, but it would need to be exceptional circumstances to drop down to 5.

In the empty lessons they need to be 'supervised'. If only doing the core 5 they would have 10 hrs a week untimetabled. Someone would also need to set / support work during those times.

it would be highly unlikely they are allowed to drop a core subject, so it also means that the curriculum could become very boring / hard. If all you are doing all week is Maths, English and Science, it might be that subjects that interest the student more such as History or Drama or PE are missing.

They aren't going to let a student drop stuff because they don't 'pay attention' in lessons. They may be more flexible if non attendance is due to illness rather than can't be bothered. There may be more flexibility if there is an EHCP.

A motivated student could catch up a fair amount with adult help of 2hrs per day in the 6 weeks summer holidays.

If things are still bad by Feb half term y11, that might be the time to strategically decide which subjects are being revised for.

The other thing is to know what the desired next step is. e.g. A level 3 BTEC or a level 2 BTEC or apprenticeship and to understand the entry criteria.
Also of course to know that failing maths or Eng Lang means resitting in college.

There are two systems that many schools have that might be helpful.

The first is that often the lower attaining students are on a pathway where for example they don't do languages but do extra maths and English. These are sometimes known as boosters or support lessons. You may be able to get her into one of those classes if she drops a subject. However, behaviour can be a problem and well behaved kids who join those classes sometimes want to move out of them quickly.

Most schools will also run some kind of support room, where students who are anxious/ etc work on their own. Again, as the year goes on more and more year 11s wind up in the situation where they drop a gcse in order to try to do better on the others, so these rooms fill up over the year. There may well be an expectation the student works on their own, and while quiet will be enforced, there won't usually be any adult help if she can't do the work, and if she doesn't want to do anything she won't be made to.

I am a teacher of MFL
There were 2 very disruptive pupils in my GCSE group but even though one of them.told me French was not his priority and the other k
lied about me I was told they had to continue, as they needed to have the opportunity to achieve. Frustrating for me those thst wanted to work and the two pupils who didn't. My point is schools are reluctant to allow this. If she has missed 50 percent of y10, she will be feeling even more pressure than the others. Good luck

Is there MH at play?

Are there non core options she would happily drop that she is behind in?
I think you could ask to drop 2 which would be the equivalent of 1 lesson per day approx, but she would have to use that missed time effectively.

That might even mean she could come home early some days which could help MH.

(My DD2 missed all y11 with anxiety/depression).

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor I’m currently paying for 2 weekly tutor sessions- maths and English. I’ve also had her at my house for two blocks of 4 days where I took a lot of time off work to try to establish how much she has missed, and try to help her catch up. But I live 3 hours away and have no more time or money. I’m looking a one week core subjects summer camp option… but, I just can’t afford it all.

I don’t think her attendance is going to improve in Y11, and though I can’t go into the reasons here, I would just like to say that she’s a deeply traumatised child, not “naughty”. The reasons are complex and she’s easily overwhelmed. She tends to attend part of the day 3-4 days a week, rather than having lock blocks of non-attendance.

There’s no chance of an EHCP - parent won’t drive that. (if it were even appropriate and useful)

My personal belief is that she has a chance of passing 5 GCSEs if she focuses only on those and receives some tutoring too. I think it would be better for her to be doing BBC bite size Science online in learning support instead of sitting in the back of French messing about to hide how far behind she is. She can’t count to 10 in French after 3.5 years.

Even for children without attendance and health issues, I thought it must be pretty common that they may have more chance of 5x Grade 4 than 8x Grade 2/3 if they’re allowed to focus. Maybe it’s as simple as the school saying, “we can’t official tell you not to bother with History, but don’t bother with History and we won’t penalise lack of homework, and if you can’t cope with a full day today - then dip out of History not English.” But that’s what I’m asking - do schools do that?

I think it depends on core subjects. Chances are there will be two science GCSES, Maths and then two GCSEs for English - language and literature. It would be unlikely she'd be able to drop literature (it's usually taught alongside language, if she takes both it counts for double in the school's progress figures, regardless of her grade). If it's a school of religious character, I doubt they'd let her drop RE.

Then that leaves her options. There may be some additional classes, or not. She may be able to do her own work in her options classes, but I suspect that's completely down to what type of a student she is (or even, what type of a student she is assumed to be) she could even make use of the library/student services in that time.

@TeenDivided I’ve got her into Maths & English tutoring (which frankly is a huge impact on my finances) after explaining to her that these are the 2 she would have to resit. She’s full of teenage bullshit about not caring, but actually she does care and is reasonably engaged with the tutoring.

I’ve also been through the college prospectus with her and the only course she’s even vaguely interested needs 5x Grade 4. Sadly she’s not hugely motivated by that… she’s not a bad kid, she’s just got teenage bravado bullshit and MH issues from some traumatic events.

If she was a particularly academic kid, she’d just about coast through with some support - but she’s not, so the 4s she might have got with a bit of help and self motivation are all 1/2 currently.

I’m looking for anything that would help her.
She won’t work independently online for example, so not an option for me to pay for something like InterHigh.

@Testina you sound like an amazing person for her to have on her side.

I genuinely think working consistently will be the answer. It can be so hard with the teenage bravado swagger.

Thank you, all.

Yes, my school did have students on reduced timetables in extreme circumstances but they did not achieve well and would have been much better off in the classroom.

BBC bitesize is a fantastic resource for catching up after the odd day of illness or to revise but can not compete with a classroom where learning takes place in many different forms. School isn't just about attainment it is also about learning to work with others and social conventions something she'll be missing if she is absent alot.

You say she might as well drop food tech but even if she never catches up she will learn useful skills. Even if she drops to 5 subjects it is unlikely she'll get 5s at GCSE if her attendance remains poor. Many students like your niece flourish when they start college and redo their GCSEs.

I would stop paying for the tutor and start paying for counselling for her so she can process and move on from whatever is holding her back.

OK if it is trauma based and she can manage part days but not full days this is what I would do:

Between now and end of summer holidays focus on catching up some maths & science (and maybe favourite GCSE whatever that is) There are loads of online resources such as seneca, primrose kitten, corbett maths etc.

Then when she has got her year 11 timetable look at how it is organised and think about strategic subject dropping based on what level of attendance she can manage and how she feels about the subjects.

Even if she gets 5 passes she probably isn't going to be doing A levels is she? So quite probably better to do Level 2 BTEC (even if qualifying for level 3) as then she can keep up with work whilst recovering.

My DD is having trauma related therapy and it is exhausting . Also she can't manage 4 full days in college but doing an easier course means she can miss some sessions and still keep up.

I keep x-posting with you What course is she looking at. Are you sure there isn't a level 2 version of it?

Hi Op,

You sound like you are doing so much for her, hats off to you

It is highly unlikely a school would let a pupil drop so many GCSEs unless there were extremely severe circumstances, as the poster previously mentioned.

It may be possible to drop 1, and even then it usually involves many meetings etc so see of other options to avoid this have been tried.

However, it's Y10, and Spring term in Y11, possibly Autumn term, is where schools start the additional support with revision or booster classes - there is time to see improvement with your neice, and the school will likely want to see the mock GCSE results before making any decisions.

How many subjects will rely on coursework, usually this is just the options, can you help her as much as possible with this to boost her result?

Good luck

@Singleandproud I’m already paying for the counselling too! There are charities supporting too but she’s unwilling to engage so that’s a slow process. It is not something she will process and move on from quickly. Certainly not in time to turn re-focus and catch up for GCSEs a year away!

But it’s not just the trauma and attendance. She’s also just not a particularly academically able student. She’s the sort that you might get a tutor (if you were able to afford it) to push her over the line from possibly 3 to secure 4 - even if there were no other issues, she just needed more 1:1 help to grasp concepts.

She’s made up approx a year of missed English and Maths in the last 4 months, so I’m definitely not stopping the tutoring!

It’s true that many do flourish at college - but many also just sink further, and leave the second they’re 18 with no further qualifications or motivation.

I have talked to her about life long learning. How if she fails the whole damn lot, she can turn round at 25 or 32 and text me, “hey - I’ve been thinking about getting into….” and I’m there for her.

But if there’s anything that she, or I, or her school can do to just get her through the minimums to have more choice at college - I want to try.

She’s actually not doing Food Tech - I just picked it as an example as obviously school wouldn’t reduce her subjects by removing anything non-core. She’s no more enthused by her options than she is her core. She’s actually switched two of her options mid Y10, that’s how little she cared about even her first choices! I don’t disagree that there’s still useful things to be learned in class.

@LadyHag “Spring term in Y11, possibly Autumn term, is where schools start the additional support with revision or booster classes”

This is really useful thank you… I can add it to the list of points for my brother to discuss with school - when do their booster classes start (if they do them!) and how does she get included for those..

I don’t want to say the course for privacy… and you’re right that there’s a Level 2, but not offered by her local college and there’s only one college in her town and she won’t choose to commute.

If there was a Level 1/2 of anything she vaguely cared about, honestly I’d think, “fuck it, that’s what resits are for” 🙂

But from what I know of her, failing Eng Lang and Maths would just mean she hates college, stuck doing resits, and she’s quite possibly fail them again.

The 5 passes I mention here might be pie in the sky and my first priority is just supporting the Maths/Eng passes.

I feel I should say that I have spoken to her about what she wants too!

I’m really sorry that you’re posting from a point of view of personal experience, and wish your daughter well ❤️

So at our school this is dealt with in a case by case basis. We do regularly put students on a part time timetable and I currently teach two Year 10s where we've done this- but in both cases it's because they have alternative educational provision elsewhere. There are charities who offer 'things' to vulnerable students (can't be more specific. Sorry. But they're a relaxed programme).

I teach a year 9 with a complex home life and all the resulting problems you'd expect. He's only in in the afternoons at the moment- but I think he's being offered support and the idea would be to get him in full time at some point.

And my Year 11 class contained several students not doing all the GCSEs. The problem would be what do you do with them when the others are in lessons. In our cases those kids were given an additional couple of support lessons- but I wouldn't say they were well run, and are mainly a babysitting club for tricky students. You don't want school refusers in a situation where lessons are disregulated.

Post pandemic school refusers are a big issue. We don't have a solution- but, yes, I'd suspect your school should be able to accommodate things.

Good luck.

My son's school let him drop one gcse subject. He still had to attend the lessons and sit at the back of the class with headphones on and a laptop to do catch up work/homework revision.

As parents, we got him enrolled with a private engiush and maths tutor. Getting him involved with army cadets was a life saver. He wanted a part time job so he wrote his cv and took it in to various places. Attended an interview by himself and was successful at getting a put wash job in a local pub. This boosted his confidence no end. It also keeps him off the streets when trouble is brewing with the local teenagers.

But in all honesty the school offered very little support and it was mainly up to us and our son to boost grades.

You don’t necessarily need the school to agree as she could still go to the lessons but you could basically just decide on the 5 and focus all outside school attention on them. Food tech wouldn’t be a bad one as that’s 50% course work! With my ds (asd) I just chose the 5 I thought I could understand enough of to help him pass (history, re and English lit) and then got him tutors for english lang and maths. He still went to the lessons for the others. He nearly passed science despite knowing nothing and doing no additional study, maybe as a lot of it is multiple choice.

That’s really helpful, thanks @Curioushorse her refusal isn’t pandemic related but the upsurge post pandemic I guess means that resources are stretched ever thinner 😕

It’s been a year now and all she seems to have been offered is a pass to leave class whenever she needs to, and no pressure on her lack of attendance. I don’t want to criticise the school and say that the lack of pressure isn’t exactly what she needs! I appreciate there may be much behind the scenes, but… There hasn’t been a single meeting with my brother about handling the situation. I’m trying to encourage my brother to approach the school, and just a list of things from the thread like, “do you have any pupils on part time timetables and how is that managed?” and “do you run Y11 boosters and would she/they be suitable?” would help.

@Rumplestiltz “I just chose the 5 I thought I could understand enough of to help him pass” - that’s great that you were able to do that for him!

Sadly I’m 3 hours away so I just can’t provide that support 😕
If online school would work she could just live with me for a year and I’d be hands on in the evenings… but she’s a traumatised kid and being away from her family isn’t the answer. I wish I lived closer 😕

Food Tech was just an example - she actually dropped it mid Y10 for History 🫣
So she’s missed 1/4 of the 2 years even as her starting block… and that wasn’t due to a love of History!