...........Italian........German........Greek..........Which option for year 9......????........

[RTKangaDYSONMummy]

As well as LATIN and FRENCH

Which would you suggest for year 9 option?

Other option is Spanish but he doesn't want to do that.

He enjoys Latin and French and we can't decide which option to choose

We have no plans to go to Italy or Germany for holidays

{Both DH and I know some German and DH knows a little Greek}

I think he will be more slanted towards English and Drama for A level so I am thinking Greek would be good option

What do you guys think?

What difference will it make for future?

No because mastery of the language is not necessary for you to start understanding the culture - they're two different things. You get insight from reading in the original language rather than in translation from the moment you start to grapple with issues about, for example, translating words for which there is no English equivalent.

snorkle - sure, but as parents you can take your child on holiday to Italy, discuss Italian politics from newspaper articles, send him/her on a language course in Florence or Rome etc. Can you do that for Ancient Greek?

Language learning is so much more than what happens in the classroom.

That's true Snorkle - at GCSE it is probably all 'My name is Antonio and I like going to the cinema', whereas with Greek you'd be reading Homer and starting to think about how oral composition works.

"No because mastery of the language is not necessary for you to start understanding the culture."

Kathy - you are far too clever to spout tripe like this and I won't let you . Please think again...

"Kathy - you are far too clever to spout tripe like this and I won't let you . Please think again... "

LOL Anna - that's flattering but it's not an effective argument against what I've said!

Kathy - you cannot possibly uphold that you can separate language from culture and have any meaningful understanding of that culture without a very good grasp of the language.

Language shapes culture hugely. Indeed, it is by learning another language/culture to a high level that you can gain insight into your own linguistic and cultural bias.

In this case though RTKM has stated they have no plans to visit Italy. Ergo, no cultural benefit to Italian over Greek.

(I'm playing devils advocate to a degree here... I generally rate modern languages over classical ones, but if you're just talking about a taster, rather than going anywhere near mastery, as in this case, I'm opting for classical)

Except who knows what the future holds? The child may love Italian/get an opportunity to travel there, yet unplanned and unknown.

Not sure I adhere to the "taster concept" in education in any case...

Anna, you didn't read what I wrote properly. I said you don't need mastery of the language to start learning about culture. I gave the example that from the moment you start translating and realise there aren't equivalents for every word in both languages, you start to grasp the cultural differences. We're talking about GCSE choices here, so the issue is whether a GCSE Greek will give you a worthwhile insight into a very different culture (without taking you anywhere near mastery of the language), and I contend that it will.

The subtler differences between British and Italian culture may be harder to get at without mastery of the language, but the differences between modern Britain and Ancient Greece are so huge (and yet unexpected) that even a GCSE can open a window onto them.

Greek every time! OK we have fallen in love with the island of Rhodes - and the amazing locals. We have only managed to learn about 20 words but you can really say them with venom!!!! It has taken us 6 years to realise that they are not mad at us when they are speaking - thats just how they speak!!!

Brilliant language - except for the word which means I love you - sagapo! Not very romantic.

I vote German. Reasons: An EU language; OP's ds already has a Romance language and Latin which should make acquisition of another Romance language a little easier at any time in the future. Get the Germanic language skills now.

Kathy - While I agree that Ancient Greek culture is very different to modern British culture, I still don't agree that learning Ancient Greek will give a pupil greater insights into taking on board that there are different contemporary worldviews.

FWIW, I did years and years of Latin at school (and was rather good at it, having lots of paternal encouragement and tutoring) and studied How The Romans Lived in many shapes and forms. But ultimately, that was history. As an experience in cultural insight, it pales to nothing in comparison with speaking modern languages and living in other cultures.

I believe we desperately need to encourage modern language learning in the UK (it is in a dramatic situation). Or else we will soon become a nation capable of electing George W Bush.

It doesn't surprise me that you didn't get much cultural insight out of Latin Anna - the way Roman culture has been taught until very recently has tended to stress similarity rather than 'otherness' much more than Greek.

Agree with you very much about the importance of modern language learning. I find it staggering that this is something that was being noticed as poor when I was at school and since then it has got far, far worse.

Does anyone on this thread have a son of 12/13 who wants a French-English language exchange? My stepson wants to go to England, but it's very hard to find an English boy interested in learning French properly...

Ds is already doing an exchange this year Anna or he would have been interested. I actually despair of languages in this country - we have the problem that we start too late and do too little. When we try to speak, invariably the people we speak to answer in brilliant English and so limit our practise opportunities and perpetuates the belief that other languages unnecessary. News like this doesn't help either.

Ds's French exchange partner spends more than twice the amount of time learning English than Ds does learning French and started younger.

I'm not sure a GCSE in a modern foreign language is worth bothering with.

Better to go to the Alliance Française, Instituto Cervantes, Goethe-Institut or Instituto Italiano di Cultura and follow their programme and take their exams, which have all been aligned (with the Cambridge English as a Foreign Language exams) in a framework so that all the levels are on a par across the languages.

Sorry - my last post was a reaction to the link in snorkle's previous post. Just letting off steam .

Snorkle - I know what you mean, my stepsons started English here in primary school and now my elder stepson is in secondary school English has become a really important subject (same weighting as French and Maths) and he is making very good progress.

WOW Thank you

Now you can see why it is sooooooooo difficult to choose

Does anyone have any good points for Greek or German?

There are other variables that come into the decision-making process. For example, is one or other of the three languages taught better at your son's school? If German, for example, is the school's star language - go for it.

Also, are you able to help in any way with one of the three languages? I am very glad that my daughter will be learning Spanish as her third language as both my partner and I (and my sister and BIL and family) speak it and realistically we can take her on holiday to Spain, to stay with friends in Latin America etc. Were she to study Chinese I would have a much harder time boosting what she has learnt at school.

All the languages have excellent teaching and results

He doesn't want to do Spanish cos loads of them want to do that cos it is seen as the easy option in the other boys' opinion

DH and I speak/understand a little German, DH the same with Greek.

No family knowledge of Italian but one of his school friends is Italian.

All teachers say he is capable of doing whichever choice he wants

He doesn't know what he wants to do, he enjoys French and Latin

We don't have any plans to visit any European country or South America as a family, our holidays are usually Australia and South Pacific. The school goes to visit all of the relevant places so that isn't a way to decide iyswim

Does anyone else have an opinion or advice from what their DD/DS have done?

GREEK, GERMAN or ITALIAN

Thanks

German.

You may not have plans to go on holiday anywhere non anglophone, but your DS has his whole life ahead of him and may choose to live in Europe/work in S.America/travel around Asia. So you really cannot approach his choice of language from that perspective.

I would say go with german too. He already has one romance language (French) and one classical language (Latin) which will help him no end should he decide to take up Spanish or Italian at a later date. Ideally, he should do another modern language, and one with a different linguistic structure, so German would be the best bet imo. If he has Latin already it will help him with the concept of cases in German grammar anyway.

As an aside - I don't agree with whoever said you don't need a language in order to understand the culture - you only truly understand the culture of a country when you get to grips with the language. IT's about a lot more than art/architecture/cuisine etc.

I agree that DS may decide to work/marry/live anywhere in the world he chooses

I was just answering the question from yesterday about going on holiday etc.

Thanks for all your help guys

" I don't agree with whoever said you don't need a language in order to understand the culture - you only truly understand the culture of a country when you get to grips with the language. "

No-one said that Brangelina. I said you don't need complete mastery of the language to start learning about the culture, my point being that learning about culture through language starts as soon as you start learning the language.