Choosing a secondary school - what to look for and how to find out?

[choosestress]

Looking for advice from teachers and experienced parents. We are preparing to move house in the next 1-2 years and want to move into the catchment of a secondary school we are happy with. We will be moving 2-3 miles from our current home, but flexible on exact location, which gives us the option of about 5 secondary schools.

I'm feeling at a loss as to what to look for, and how to find out the information. I feel that Open Days, Ofsted etc can only tell you so much about what it's like to actually attend the school.

Things that seem to be important to us are -

• Staff turnover. I can see this is a huge issue nationally. How can I find out what a school's staff turnover is, and what % of lessons are staffed by cover teachers? Would a school tell me the answer to this? Would I need to do an FOI request?

• Behaviour. Our DD is very well behaved and finds excessive classroom noise stressful. How can I find out what behaviour is like, and whether the behaviour policies are actually followed?

• Phone policy - we are very anti phone in the classroom as it's clearly as distraction and affects behaviour. How can I find out what the phone policy is?

• Sexual harassment - I want a school that take a very firm line / zero tolerance stance on sexual harassment of girls, whether that's in person or via social media. How can I find out girl's experiences at the schools? Could I request data on how many instances have been reported at each school?

Can anyone advise?

Go along to open days and talk to existing students.

To your list it looks like I'd expect you might also wish to add in what they teach around gender, whether they let males into female single sex spaces (toilets, changing rooms, PE lessons if sex segregated), whether they change pupils names without permission from parents.

Personally I'd also look at pastoral care, setting / streaming policy, flexibility of choice at GCSE time, and extra curricular, homework policies.

(Phones can be useful tools in classrooms however.)

Try local Facebook groups for inside info if you don't know anyone already at the school. Bear in mind that you're more likely to hear from those that had problems!

You should also bear in mind that a lot of the things in your list could have changed by the time your child actually gets there.
You may also struggle to find a school that bans phones if that's what you're after. More and more schools use online resources in class.

"Phone policy - we are very anti phone in the classroom as it's clearly as distraction and affects behaviour. How can I find out what the phone policy is?"

What research do you have to support that? I would fundamentally disagree with you. I teach older students, and my policy is that students have them out on tables, they can be used for work but not for social use. This is much easier to manage than a complete ban, where students keep them in their blazer pockets and then nip off to the loo when their phones go off or try to text under the table and think you can't see that. If students don't handle it well, I have a phone box and have no qualms of asking them to put their phones in their until the end of the lesson.

My daughter's school held the view that phones were a part of life, and students needed to learn to manage it sensibly. It was much better because the school actually dealt with phone issues (students posting not nice pics / photos of students etc) whereas another school up the road refused to deal with any of those issues, as phones were banned in school, so it wasn't their problem. Caused no end of issues...

Behaviour and phone policy for schools can probably be found in their website.

Staff turnover, is not as important as ability to recruit teachers for me. Turnover at my son’s school is quite high, but mostly at the end of the academic year so has had limited impact. When teachers move from his school it seems to either be to move out of London or for a promotion.

I think Ofsted, particularly ratings, are of limited use. Performance data from the Find/Compare schools government site is also useful, particularly if you drill down to performance for the characteristics that best fit your child.

Go visit and ask the same questions at all

Thanks all. Really interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Thanks for clarifying re ability to recruit. What questions can I ask them to look into that? Eg Number of vacancies they are carrying? Time taken to recruit to certain roles?

If you get shown round by a pupil and there aren't any teachers around, ask if they'd like their little brother or sister to go to the school.

A lot of those questions can be asked to the school themselves when you go to their open evening.

But for the day to day experience, ask around. Literally. See if you have any friends/friends of a friend with kids in the school and ask for their opinion. The school may have a Good Schools Guide review and if it does, you can check that out. It does cost £20 a month or so however to get access to all their reviews.

I'm feeling at a loss as to what to look for, and how to find out the information. I feel that Open Days, Ofsted etc can only tell you so much about what it's like to actually attend the school.

@choosestress schools are under a lot of budgetary and workload pressure at the moment. I'm a governor in a very succesful and popular school, and our senior leadership team are telling us it has never been this bad. And parents are getting more and more demanding too. Please don't add to the problem by bombarding schools with FOI requests and emails. You should be able to find everything you need on school websites, in governors' minutes (which are available on request from the school office, if not already published online), open days/evenings, and by local reputation.

Even if a school is doing well now - that will be no good to you if their popular Head is about to resign due to stress, or if they are about to make massive cuts due to a looming deficit. Many schools are in this position.

Staff turnover. I can see this is a huge issue nationally. How can I find out what a school's staff turnover is

You can't, but keep an eye on their Vacancies page. If they are regularly advertising for key positions like Heads of Maths, Science, English, that is potentially worrying. If they are advertising for a new Headteacher, then all bets are off - wait to see who they appoint before committing. The best Heads will be a breath of fresh air in a school, and may, over times, bring a wave of good staff with them from previous schools where they have worked. The worst Heads will be bulls in china shops, and drive out the best teachers.

Also, remember that raw numbers for staff turnover tell you nothing about the quality of staff leaving - good schools will make sure that poor (and unimprovable) teachers are moved on.

and what % of lessons are staffed by cover teachers? Would a school tell me the answer to this? Would I need to do an FOI request?

It will be more than you're happy with, even in the best schools.

Behaviour. Our DD is very well behaved and finds excessive classroom noise stressful. How can I find out what behaviour is like, and whether the behaviour policies are actually followed?

Every school will have some year groups and some classes that are more disruptive than others. If you ask on Facebook etc, the answers will depend on the experience of the individuals replying, and will tell you little about your future experience. Ask a few different teachers about behaviour at the Open Evening, and see what they say while looking you in the eye. Also, check for behaviour posters in classrooms - if there are visual reminders, its a sign its being taken seriously.

Phone policy - we are very anti phone in the classroom as it's clearly as distraction and affects behaviour. How can I find out what the phone policy is?

This will be on the website, probably on the policy page, or in the student section.

Sexual harassment - I want a school that take a very firm line / zero tolerance stance on sexual harassment of girls, whether that's in person or via social media.

Check the website for relevant policies and the Equalities Plan, which sets out objectives they are focussing on. Sexual harassment is also currently a key focus for Ofsted, and schools are very aware of the issue following recent news headlines. But some may have a bigger hill to climb than others if they're having to overcome negative attitudes embedded at home or at primary school - sadly, that comes down to cohort and area, as well as strong leadership.

How can I find out girl's experiences at the schools? Could I request data on how many instances have been reported at each school?

That would only tell you how many are recorded, not how many are taking place - the best schools will have a zero tolerance policy, so may record more incidents than the worst schools.

At DD's school they have loads of pupils helping at open evenings of all ages.
I think for 'on the ground' info that is the place to be, asking the pupil helpers about anything.

Are any of the schools single sex, as that is obviously one way to address your final bullet point?

I agree with you that Ofsted reports are usually out of date and/or not very useful at all, but I actually found open days much more helpful than I was expecting. We attended several (as the location of our house means that there were several possibles rather than one obvious one) and found they gave a really good feel for the atmosphere and ethos of the school. We went in feeling pretty clueless, and came out with firm ideas about the strengths and weaknesses of each (which have proved to be pretty accurate). It's a bit like house hunting! It seems like a huge decision but you emerge from each viewing with clear feelings!

For staff turnover, join the schools own Facebook pages as they will advertise jobs via there as well as their own website.

Is it really worth moving for 2/3 miles? The schools I applied for for dc1 were ranged 2-5 miles away and she got allocated choice 1, the furtherst one away.

... Also, re sexual harassment - the best schools will have had a zero tolerance policy for some time, and will be focussing on empowering their students to recognise, challenge and report harrassment instances - again, this will increase the number of reported instances compared to schools where students turn a blind eye when their friends are harassed or harrassing.

Are any of the schools single sex, as that is obviously one way to address your final bullet point?

Girls do sexually harrass other girls. Many more girls' friendships are developing into sexual relationships than in the past, and especially in girls' schools.

Regarding kerping an eye on staff turnover, you can set up an alert for a school on one of the big recruitment sites, so you'll know as soon as positions are advertised. Most schools are using the Government's service here: https://teaching-vacancies.service.gov.uk/ but TES and eTesch are also used.

If you can, try to look at the age range of the teachers at the school. Some greying hair among them might indicate that the staff turnover is not too great. I high staff turnover usually denotes that the school's management team is not up to much. If the denizens of the staffroom look little different from those in the 6th form common room turnover is high

Phone policy - we are very anti phone in the classroom

Just on this point @choosestress Type I diabetes is increasingly being managed via a phone and bluetooth technology (maybe other health conditions are too, but diabetes is the one I have extensive knowledge of). As this becomes the norm, a blanket ban on phones in the classroom will fall into the category of disability discrimination as defined by the 2010 Equality Act – Type I diabetes is covered by this legislation.

Of course a school could write their policy to exclude those with this condition, but there may soon be a number of conditions which also use this tech. I think in general well-managed policies such as suggested by @woldscotsma is a much better way forward.

high staff turnover usually denotes that the school's management team is not up to much

It could. Or it could mean the exact opposite if a new HT or SLT are recently in place. It could signify they are moving on those staff they deem not up to scratch.

If no senior management have changed recently then @postwarbulge's interpretation is perhaps more likely to be correct. The devil's in the details, as always in education.

Often the criteria applied to older more experienced staff are age, salary level and unwillingness to spend useless hours on bullshit

Reading a school's policies is a waste of time, it is looking around you for signs of their implementation theta matters

Its also worth considering whether it's as much the student population as "the school" that you're guaging. If so, just go and stand outside at the end of the school day and observe.

It could. Or it could mean the exact opposite if a new HT or SLT are recently in place. It could signify they are moving on those staff they deem not up to scratch.

Or it could be that they are pushing out good, experienced (expensive) teachers in favour of new (cheap) teachers who are unlikely to stay at the school (or indeed in teaching) for a couple of years.

From 5 years experience with DD in her secondary I found out that:

Just when she started the head retired. The lady was well loved and highly respected and the school run well.
New head: loved to make changes and do her own things. Changed a lot after 1 year, changed the way languages are taught, introduced project work for a broader learning which just caused lots for the girls to do and had no impact on the actual learning in lesson.

While teaching was still on a high level, the school's reputation and especially the view of the head dropped.

Then a huge change in the Academy Trust, they went from 2 secondaries and 3 primaries to 4 secondaries and 5 primaries.
4 heads resigned incl. DD's.

So, we have another new head since Easter. Obviously the jury is out on her but the first thing she did was reversing the language teaching changes and the changes to the school day.

Basically, however you think a school is now doesn't mean the school will be when your child will start.