Veterinary medicine - redo year 10 at new school or are there alternative routes?

[Tryingmyveryverybest]

Just after some general opinion and a bit of advice. (Or possibly what I’m really after is some reassurance that it’s ok to take the leap and redo year 10 in a new school).

Since January I’ve been fostering a year 10 child. They have remained at their current school and their GCSE options were limited as, due to many reasons causing under performance, they were told they would have to choose a vocational pathway and chose the sports vocational pathway. They were also given no advice over subject options/future careers.
Over the last few months, with a bit of stability, this young person has really come out of their shell, settled down and school work is improving rapidly.
Academically, they are capable of a lot more and have ambitions to be a vet. Unfortunately, due to missing out on quite a bit of school over year 9 and the start of year 10 (not to mention the covid years) this young person is stuck in the foundation only sets for the core subjects due to the pathway. The young person raised the question, after we looked at what was required for being a vet, “can I move to another school and start GCSEs again?”

I think this would be a positive move and would provide a bit of a fresh start and some time to catch up on the missed year 10 content. It would also allow them to choose more GCSE option subjects, would be doing English x2, and wouldn’t be restricted to the foundation only sets therefore being able to meet the GCSE requirements for vet school.
They are currently doing:
English Language, Maths, Science x2, Geography, BTEC Sport Science and BTEC Sport Studies with the highest GCSE grade possible being a 5.

However, are there other/alternative routes into veterinary medicine which would be achievable from the GCSE pathway they are currently on? Or would this be too much effort/it’s worth taking a step back at starting GCSEs again?

From what you are describing, restarting year 10 sounds extremely justifiable and would open a lot of doors that their current route seems likely to close, or at least make a lot harder to open. If I was 15 and being told, well your options at the moment are limited but if you do this and this then in 3 years time you'll be able to do something else that might make up for what you couldn't do before then - what would happen to my motivation? A teenager that has turned around a big gap in only a few months, deserves every chance to work to their potential now, not in 3 or 4 years.

Yes vet medicine may not be achievable given its competitiveness, but the steps taken now to give it a chance will also open up a wider range of possibilities that could also be realistic for this student. I hope you can help them navigate a route that will get them to an academic 6th form.

Absolutely agree that if the school won’t be flexible about sets, try moving and start again (appalling lack of ambition for so much of the cohort). Whatever people say about allowances for children who have experienced disadvantage, I’ve found unis really are not often very flexible about students who don’t meet the gcse criteria (I support university applications as part of my job).

that said, would your FC meet criteria for this programme which I’ve had students access in recent years and seems great? https://www.rvc.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/veterinary-gateway#panel-g-c-s-es-only-in-addition-to-other-qualifications

vet science is competitive but I would say in the past few years I’ve seen it become a bit less so. The key is broad work experience and evidence of engagement with animal welfare issues. The sooner you start on collecting that the better. I had a student last year who qualified for contextual offers and who was offered BBB for a vet medicine course. She had loads of practical experience though.

As a teacher of many students like this one, I do not think starting again is necessary. As a fostered child they will be eligible for the Gateway courses via either the BTEC or A level route. Also, eligible for contextual offers and extra support at all Unis. And lots of bursaries and scholarships available too.
We have several students from care going to Uni this year to study medicine, vet med and other competitive courses. It's not all about grades.
But for vet med you do need work experience. Some with vet practices and some animal husbandry.

And school do not get to cap a students potential due to timetabling. Especially a LA care child. Fight and copy in your local fostering service for support. Use your contact in a face to face meeting and ask for a written explanation as to why they can't be moved. Year 10 is far too early to make final decisions about tiers of entry. If she's capable then they need to move her. If she's not, then a different path may be necessary.

I would go for restarting year 10. It’s not really about whether they get into vet science or not, it’s about then having aspirations that the school seems determined to block.

Why would you send a child to a school that allows this to happen? I despair at some people.
OP, this is a LAC, they've probably had it rough so far, they don’t need that going forward. Your FC needs the best start in life you can give them and the current school clearly isn’t helping make life easier for them.
Move them!
Doesn’t matter what they end up doing in the future, in the present they are 100% being prevented from fulfilling their potential, whatever that potential may be.

“Why would you send a child to a school that allows this to happen? I despair at some people.”

Because moving a child mid-GCSEs is a big decision. I think it would be the right choice to restart year 10 (but OP should also be aware that some schools start the gcse syllabus in year 9). It’s a judgement call, not an “I despair”

I have been in touch with the LA and social worker today. We have arranged a meeting for tomorrow. I don’t know what the outcome of that will be right now.

I agree with some of you, vet medicine might not be the ultimate career this child decides upon. I know there needs to be some ideas put forward for plan b, plan c etc if it doesn’t work out, but for now, vet medicine is the ambition this young person has. From experience, foster children have been through a a lot and to have ambitions is usually, sadly, lacking, due to their past experiences. The fact this young person has an ambition means I will do whatever I can to make sure that ambition can, at the very least, have a chance. At the minute, it doesn’t, and neither do many other careers.

Currently, they have no way of meeting the GCSE requirements for either vet medicine or more importantly in the short term, for sixth form, which means, they won’t be able to do A Levels. Although, I can see there are a couple of mentions for BTEC applied science which some universities accept. Thant you to everyone who highlighted that.

Thanks to all who have mentioned work experience. I can see this is an important part regardless of the education route my FC ends up on. I’ll start doing some digging and see what we can arrange.

@backinthebox thank you for your insight. That’s really valuable.

Thank you so far to everyone who has shown me what alternative are out there in regards to gateway courses and 6 year degrees and to those who have given some suggestions for “plan b”.

I’ll update when I have more information of what is possible as I’ll probably have a thousand more questions tomorrow night.

Oh and @RantAlert, I did not choose this school. I have a list of 4 schools, which, when I have to choose schools for other foster children I look after, or have looked after in the past, either for short term or long term placements, those are the ones which I choose based on the best school for the child. I have good working relationships with those schools, this one, this one I never touch but I’m trying my best because I have to. That’s my job. Pick up the prices, make the best out of a situation and provide a stable, supportive, caring and loving environment.

This particular child came to me half way through year 10. It was an emergency placement which has turned into a permanent one. The LA do not like moving children in exam years wherever possible, especially for what was meant to be a short term placement.

As it has turned into a permanent placement, things are different and we can now look at what is the best way forward to provide the best for this child. I can’t change the past. I can help to shape the future.

Op, you are doing a brilliant job for your FC. If they get the chance to get the grades for science a levels, those will give a great base for all kinds of things. Good luck!

@SheilaFentiman thank you so much, that’s extremely kind of you. 😊

Just a few other practical comments about Vet school that I hope will be useful if this young person wants to go down that route:

1. As well as the grades, all prospective students need to have a set amount of animal related work experience in a specific period of time before applying, and the applications close earlier than for other degrees. There are also quite a few additional forms and interviews to complete. When looking at 6th forms I'd check whether they have experience of guiding students through this- it will make a huge difference. There may also be extra programmes for care leavers so finding a school with experience of the process will be really useful for you.
2. During the degree students also currently have to spend quite a few weeks of their holidays doing unpaid work experience. This is currently being revised but it won't be dropped altogether. This means it's harder for students to get paid summer jobs, and they have fewer weeks of holiday that they can work than for other jobs. It's also quite competitive to get the right placements and there can be travel costs etc that are not reimbursed. As a care leaver, the young person won't have the bank of mum and dad behind them so they may need your help finding out if there are sources of funding that they can access to help with this. Lots of students find placements close to home so that at least they are not having to pay for food and rent- but this might not be possible for a care leaver. All things to prepare for

Excellent advice and things to think about @GreatBigBoots. Thank you. I will make sure I bare all that in mind and we can be prepared for it.

My friend's daughter who became a vet (in a not straight forward way) did a huge variety of work experience placements such as lambing on a remote farm in Wales and at Heathrow where they have a facility for animals that are transported both legally and illegally.

RVC may make some suggestions?

I wasn’t having a go at you @Tryingmyveryverybest. I was aware from what you've said that you didn’t choose the school, I was generally just having a go at whoever chose it in the first place. A school that does things like that wouldn’t have been been on my radar as I think that is appalling what they are doing.
Sorry if you think I was having a go at you, I still think you should move your FC though.

Definitely echo approaching the Virtual School. Does your FC have a PEP meeting coming up? They should be termly. Where we are, virtual school staff attend as many PEPs as possible and can help advocate for your young person (not that it sounds like you need support to advocate for them!)

@Tryingmyveryverybest I wouldn't worry about the funding aspect of Uni as, as a care leaver, they will receive bursaries and full grants. They'll also get support with EMS funding.

Just in case it's of interest, agricultural colleges have other animal related courses that don't require such high grades

This one also has an access course

https://www.sparsholt.ac.uk/subject/access/#

@Stabee we think alike! I’m was also thinking about the agricultural colleges as I was reading through this thread.

Its not vet medicine, but there’s a vet nursing degree at Myerscough college. Needs 5 GCSEs at grade 4 and 56 UCAS points to include A2 biology or an animal based BTEC/C&G/NVQ to get onto the FdSc (Level 5 course) then there’s a top up to BSC. There’s also some other animal related ones like animal studies, equine and farriery.

https://www.ucmyerscough.ac.uk/courses/veterinary-nursing/type/undergraduate/

@FriesianMoo yes they do have some good options. I've currently got one who wants to be a vet and it's such a difficult course to get a place. My worry with restarting GCSEs is that what if you don't do well the 2nd time. DD is struggling with Chemistry A level. Then there's the work experience that needs to be done before you apply. Most of it has been done in year 12 for DD, which means less study time when you need high predicted grades to get offers. It's quite hard to get and we've had to combine it with family holidays twice now, as nothing locally. Realistically they need to be able to drive and have access to a car to go on rural placements, with things like lambing quite possibly being at night. It's a big undertaking, just getting in a position to apply, so good to have some back up options.

I don't want to keep disagreeing but, as a teacher who supports students to get into vet med, and the mum of a 3rd year vet student, it is not an unachievable goal. There are many routes into the degree and for a LAC there is plenty of support. Even A level entry is different at most schools.

Being able to drive is helpful, but by no means compulsory. Many EMS placements provide free accommodation.

Getting work experience before applying should be the first hurdle, to make sure they really want to be a vet. Then I'd look at the BTEC in applied science and approach Sutton Trust and all the outreach programmes available at each Uni. Some of these provide summer schools which lead to guaranteed offers.

LAC students are not subject to the same rules. Flexibility is v easy to access.

I'm pleased to hear that Mumneedswine.

This might be something else to keep an eye on/have a look into. I’ve just heard about it through the farm vet. We had to call the vet out so I thought I would ask if they knew anything useful while they were here.

Again, it’s not vet medicine, but vet science - BVSci?

(I’ll be honest, not sure of the difference, I’m not a vet, I just look after cows, sell their milk to make cheese and ring the vets when needed).

Scotland’s Rural College (SRUC) are developing a vet science degree, it’s currently pending approval. I thought it worth a mention because rural colleges seem to have lower entry requirements.
https://www.sruc.ac.uk/study-with-us/subject-areas/veterinary-medicine/

Theres this vet technician HND as well. Completion of this will lead on the the Vet science degree which is in development. The entry requirements are in Nat5s and Highers. They want English, maths and a science at Nat5 grades A-C, which is equivalent to GCSE 4-9, so your FC should be covered there, even with the foundation papers (although I would still be looking at trying to do higher papers just for the sake of A Levels), and they want BBC at Higher which, according to UCAS tables, is 75 points so something like CDD at A Level, but I would contacting them confirm this.
https://www.sruc.ac.uk/study-with-us/course-catalogue/rural-animal-health/hnd-rural-animal-health/

competition for vet uni places is crazy, especially since its 7 years study and vets are not paid anything near as much as those going into medicine (expect about £30-£40k, maybe £45-50k as a senior vet. The hours are long often without any any praise from employer or clients! Most vet practices are now corporates. yes you can make money if happy to follow the company ethos( ie its private healthcare) by flogging tests, meds etc and get commision bonuses.
Having experienced working in the veterinary industry i certainly would not recommend being a vet to anyone. However, if animal care is the main attraction...look at animal care assistant (only ever minimum wage and again so many people want to do it) or go into it with a view to becoming a vet nurse. Again the hours can be long, and stressful, but, the wages are more in line with the time it takes to train, which would be done whilst working. (Also nursing is much more about animal care and dealing with the animals as opposed to the owners.) Generally, to get on the nursing ladder you need to get a job with a TEACHING vet practice, going in at care assistant level but make sure they will progress staff to a student nurse position. Usually the best way to get in at entry level is to have some experience e.g. volunteering at rescues or vet practices.
If Vet medicine is the definite path, I know vets who managed to get places in European universities to study because they had not managed to get the Alevel grades for the British universities. (Although I don't know how these were funded). Either way, good luck to the young person and kudos to you for your support to them.

Re-edit 5 years, not 7!

@greenfanta8 just to stop the 'medics are all rich' rumour, doctors start on £29,340. For a 40 hour week, which no one works as there are not enough doctors.This really does equate to £14.09 an hour. Yes it goes up, but most doctors earn around £40-50,000 a year. Becoming a consultant is not a certainty any more as massive log jams in training. It's beyond a mess.
Can you guess I have a medic DD too 😊.

Yes vet med is competitive but someone has to get in, so never let that stop anyone trying. My DD has a massive variety of students on her course, coming from a whole range of backgrounds and entry methods. They'll all be vets one day. Here or abroad.