Pates Grammar Cheltenham

[Mandy4821]

Hello all. I'm moving to Cheltenham and looking into secondary schools for my son for September 2025. Not sure I can afford a house in a good catchment so I am trying to get my head around the grammar system in Gloucestershire. Pates seems to be far and away the best choice but from what I can see you need to be at least in the top 5% of people taking the test to get in. Is that right. I guess I need to start finding a tutor from now?

Look at the eleven plus forum. Lots of info on there by area.

It is very competitive to get in. Your other choices are The Crypt (co ed) and Sir Thomas Rich (boys) in Gloucester. There is Marlings in Stroud as well. STR is the next best after Pates in terms of results but you should visit them all to know which will suit your child best.

yeah, it is very much a super-selective. plenty of people (well, some) move to the area just for that school. as per the SW London thread, only academically exceptional kids will get in without a fair bit of support. even with the most possible support (eg private primary and tutoring), kids need to be above average talent wise to get in.

Pates is super selective and hard to get into but it's full of pretty academically rounded kids IME. I have one DS there and I certainly wouldn't say all of his peers are exceptional, but they are all smart. All of the grammars in the county are good though, they each have their own feel and strengths so if you have a child who is likely to do well in a grammar environment you should have plenty of choice in the event you don't like or get Pates. If you do decide to go down the tutoring route, most people start in Year 5. Pointless to start any earlier.

It would be a risk to buy a house in a bad catchment and pin your hopes on Pates. Even if you child is exceptional, you are competing with DC from many miles away.
The Gloucester grammars are more accessible, so would be a safer bet.
All the schools in Cheltenham are reasonable, so what bad catchment do you think you might end up in? People might be able to advise on that.

My child qualified in the top 150 for Pates and didn't want to go there. He's very happy at STR and it was the right choice. I would stress the importance of trusting your child's instinct on where they like the feel of. An able child with a supportive family should achieve well wherever they go.

There is nothing exceptional about the teaching at Pates simply the very able cohort who go there. There are many stories of some of the ridiculous commutes that some children have just to attend Pates - which seems a bit much.

There are plenty of very good comprehensive schools in the county so if your child didn't qualify all is no lost. The area round Pates is quite mixed and Cheltenham is expensive. However if you are used to Greater London prices I'm sure you'll cope. I'm surprised you are not looking at Balcarras. That's got a very strong reputation too.

Pate’s only takes about 50% of its intake from Gloucestershire. The rest come from Bristol, Swindon and Worcestershire. It has become more popular with out of county families in recent years. Around 2500-3000 take the Gloucestershire 11+ and Pate’s take 150, pretty much all from the top 180 or so. You would need to tutor, either yourselves or privately to be in with a chance. The 11+ assessment is going back to the one run by GL assessment, 21 types of questions. Lots of info on the elevenplusexams website under Gloucestershire.

I really wouldn’t rely on Pate’s alone though. Balcarras is a very popular and high achieving comp but the catchment is expensive. Gloucester grammars are also popular, but slightly easier to qualify for.

The sixth form at Pate’s takes around 80 ‘externals’ each year in addition to the 150 internals (only 4 or 5 go elsewhere) so that’s an option for the future.

For 2025 intake, you need to register fir the exam in June 2024 and it’s taken in Sept/Oct 2024 at the start of Y6. Most people tutor during Y5.

@Justonemorecoffeeplease my son is starting STRS in September. I’m delighted to hear you say good things about it! Anything advice or tips before starting?

I'd just let the school lead you. They have a well managed induction period. Encourage him to be organised as the biggest issue we had was my son leaving a number of items all over the school including his shoes in the first week! Also, be prepared to be travelling to the school a fair bit. They have a lot of after school clubs and teams and fixtures on Saturdays too - in my opinion that's a great thing.

You do not need to hire private tutors "to be in with a chance" for Pate's. Both of my kids went there and neither were tutored.
You will, however, need exceptionally smart kids to begin with. The ones who scrape in with private tutoring don't survive, and if they do, tend to not fare well.
That's the reality.

My son did not have tutoring, he missed out on Pates and goes to STRS instead which has been a success. I think Pates would have been too academic for him to be honest (as highlighted by @MisterBloke) so I am pleased that we took that route. Nevertheless, I think you will find that most people use tutors, my son says there are still some children that have 3-4 hours of tutoring a week in year 8. Personally we weren't prepared to do that and I wanted to my son to get in on merit but I think this is becoming less common.

No point in hiring a tutor - it's been tried before. They won't survive.
Pate's is not like any other school. The weak drop out early, or are asked to leave. Make sure your kid has the right stuff to see them through the whole process. The tutoring route is strategic and artificial. Might get them in the door, but they'll be out of their depth very quickly.

I know quite a few people at Pates, doing well, and every single one of them was tutored. For several years. They might have been bright enough to get in on their own but their parents didn't take the chance.
Tutoring to boost an already bright child might be worth doing as primary schools don't prepare them for these kinds of tests.

Yeah, my guess at the proportion of Pates kids who'd been tortured would be well north of 50%? Maybe even nudging towards 90%? How else would kids be able to answer questions that look nothing like their primary school SATs and so on?

And a touch of realism is needed about the standards, whether kids will be able to keep up, etc... Pates teaches the exact same national curriculum as all other state schools, with pupils sitting broadly the same number of public exams

A super selective grammar has overall standards than comp or local grammar but it's nothing nearly like say Oxbridge maths or whatever, a place where only the top 1% need apply, not remotely.