Secondary appeal - obtaining school net capacity data

[Eclipse10]

Hi all, i am after your help again.

With my first appeal (second choice school) I struggled to obtain data from the admissions authority and had to scramble around to find information, I put my best foot forward but sadly did not win the appeal.

I am now looking forwards as have a second appeal (first choice school) coming up. In readiness I have gone direct to the academy school to request information. They have come back with the number of children (in total) on roll each year, and the current PAN instead of providing the per year group information that I asked for. They have also stated "we do not currently hold any net capacity data".

Assuming the pack I will receive from the authority / school this time round will be similar (i.e. not contain data) it is hard for me to try and counter their argument to help with the balancing.

Whilst I can continue to focus on my side of the scales and try and strengthen the arguments for my son's admission the capacity data would be really helpful in this instance as the school is having a large extension built. From the plans it seems to add more capacity than the 30 they have added to the PAN in readiness for this.

I've seen other posters referring to upper and lower ends of a net capacity assessment and detailed class room sizes etc - I dont have any of that information. Can anyone provide any advise on where else I can try and obtain this? So far I have drawn a blank.

Remind them that they are required by the Appeals Code to answer any reasonable question you ask to help you prepare your appeal. Remind them that their funding agreement states the school's net capacity, so their statement that they do not hold any net capacity data is a straight lie. Remind them that, before converting to an academy, there would have been a capacity assessment on which the net capacity in their funding agreement is based and tell them you want the maximum and minimum figures from that assessment. You also want details of any teaching spaces added to the school since the last assessment.

If they still don't come up with the information, make sure you tell the appeal panel that you have been prevented from preparing properly for the hearing by the school's refusal to answer your questions as required by the Appeals Code. If you then lose the appeal, you can go to the ESFA and argue for a fresh hearing with a different appeal paneldue to the school's failure to comply with the Appeals Code.

I have the same problem. Can’t seem to find any information on the councils site about class sizes or the capacity as school are stating that classrooms were designed for 28pupils but can’t find the building plans anywhere 🤦🏽‍♀️

@prh47bridge ibcontacted the school and they said I need to ask the council, I told them the council said I need to ask them and the woman said she would get the Year 7 teacher to call me back, I said to the woman on the phone, the Year 7 teacher isn’t going to have this information for me. It’s something that the school admin team would hold, she just wasn’t compliant at all!!!

@prh47bridge thanks for the tips I'll push back and try again!

@prh47bridge interestingly their response does clarify that the school is currently set up with 11 forms so with a PAN of 280 that's only c.25 per class not the more typical 30 so I could do with understanding whether that is due to a physical capacity restriction. Especially given their new extension adds 7 more classrooms and recreational space yet they only added 30 to the PAN as a result.

@prh47bridge

I pushed back to both the school and the Authority and had these responses. It seems I'm not going to get anything further on this! Is the comment from the Authority correct?

Authority: "The net capacity is no longer the calculation that is used to determine class sizes for an academy. A schools admission number is agreed with the secretary of state and forms part of the schools funding agreement. This of course takes account of building space but also resources and staffing."

Academy: "The net capacity of the school's funding agreement is 1650. The reason this was not included on our initial response is that this is misleading based on the current situation. The net capacity of 1650 is based on the completed new build of a 7-classroom block (which is yet to be completed), and once the PAN of 280 has filtered through to all year groups in Years 7-11. As you can see from the figures above, the only year groups with an increased PAN currently are Year 7 and 8. An additional 30 students will continue to join the school for the next 3 years.

The school converted to an academy in 2011 and we do not currently hold the capacity assessment that took place before this date."

I was unable to obtain this info and during my appeal I asked the presenting officer and she said the same as what your LA have said so I assume it is now the case but the school just wouldn’t tell me. They didn’t mention that it is no longer used.

In that case I would make the point to the appeal panel that you have been hampered in your preparations by the inability of the academy to supply this data, as a result of which you have no way of knowing if the capacity set in their funding agreement was near the maximum or minimum net capacity in their most recent capacity calculation.

@Eclipse10 school net capacity data for every school in the country is published online here: https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-capacity. If you scroll down the page you'll see a link to "Download all data". Its a zip file, and quite large. When you have downloaded it and extracted the files, you'll see a folder called "data" containing several csv files. Open the one called school-capacity_200910-202122.csv and search for the school name.

@krakatowa I've downloaded that data but it only shows the single figure they base their PAN / funding on. It doesn't provide the min or max range or any specifics such as classroom size restrictions.

This guidance will give you more information about how to understand capacity..It is about more than just physical classroom size: https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/methodology/school-capacity-methodology

Also, for information about how much space needs to be provided for new builds, try this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/area-guidelines-and-net-capacity

Thanks @krakatowa I checked the figure for the school we want and it is 25 above their "PAN". I don't quite understand this, but I know they have pupils in years 10 and 11 who attend a sports academy, could it be this difference is these pupils? @prh47bridge perhaps you have experience of this? The current number of those pupils is close to the 25 figure.

I'm not sure I follow. Can you tell me what the figures are please.

PAN is 240 each year group including years 12 and 13, so 7 x 240 = 1,680. On the spreadsheet on govt website it says net capacity is 1705. So 25 higher than PAN. The’s schools case talks about approx 25 pupils in yrs 10 and 11 who attend a sport academy, and they don’t figure in the 1,680 but I wonder if they are within the 1,705, which would explain the 25 difference. Not sure if I’m making sense yet?!

This may also be due to having one of the groups as a smaller "nurture" group for students with SEN/SEMH or other needs that mean being in a full size class is difficult. If, for example, they had 9 groups of 28, this would allow two nurture groups of roughly 14 students each. This wouldn't be an abnormal set up, especially if the school splits the year into "populations".

Are they taught as their form groups all the time? There may be less teaching groups in some subjects, due to lack of capacity?

You are making sense, but it isn't a question I can answer with any certainty, I'm afraid. However, if you take a capacity of 1705 and divide it by 7, you come up with a PAN of 243.57, which clearly won't work (unless you can find some way of admitting 0.57 of a pupil)! Rounding that down to 240 makes sense as it gives them 8 forms of 30 pupils. It also means they aren't immediately over capacity just because one year has gone over PAN. Whilst I can't say for certain, I suspect that's all it is - capacity is 1705 and they've rounded PAN down to 240.

Hi all, looking for help for my son’s upper school appeal.
We have been offered second option but all kids he knows are going to his first option.
First option is closer to home, has bus routes and closer to existing school. Second has no bus route, 3 miles away, etc.
Son has autism and not road safe so very worried about how he will get to school safe as we have no way of getting him to the school selected.
The GP will be writing a letter and we have docs to support how long it took him to settle in this school, safety worries, etc.
Would this be sufficient for an appeal? Also how do I find out PAN at the new school for the appeal.
Son also starting to have anger issues, depression, crying, hurting himself since the allocation so this is also another huge concern .
thanks in advance

@PearlOrca you need to start your own thread. Use the 'Start a new thread' option under the menu at the top of the page.