Tiffin Girls and Designated Area

[meki]

Hello all! I am looking at some guidance from parents with DDs in Tiffin Girls from designated areas (Richmond Borough) - I’m guessing competition is much bigger there so would appreciate some advice on when best to start tutoring - and I’m guessing the primary should advice if DD is capable. I don’t want to overtutor as I want DD to be be happy there if she gets in but also need to balance being in the designated rather than inner area. We are just about to start reception so hopefully have time… thank you all in advance

Feel free to DM me if you want a tutor recommendation. We too were very wary of overtutoring! So we've started early and slowly X

@meki Just to clarify, is your DD about to start Reception and you're asking about tutoring for the 11+?

If you are at a state primary they will give no advice etc on grammars. And if at a prep, imo they will want to help but won't really be that useful either.
I would start at Y4 certainly no earlier. Your DD needs to be naturally super-good at either English or Maths (ideally both of course!) ie at a level that they don't need much encouragement to get full marks.
Tutor to fill the gaps
Mostly tutoring is useful for answering exam questions very very quickly.
Is it worth it? Over to you

@LondonMum20222 yes that is correct. I wouldn’t start tutoring just yet but just wanted to seek advice on this for the future. Thank you

Thank you very much @SleepyRooster this is great to know!

@meki I honestly don't think you can even begin to think about 11+ when your daughter is yet to start Reception. She is going to change beyond recognition over the next 7 years, and you have no idea yet whether she's even in the ball-park academically for a super selective grammar. As a PP said, even thinking about it before Y4 is just not worthwhile. Also, just FYI, there's not much advantage for Tiffins between Inner and Designated area - as long as you're in the Designated area you have a good shot (providing your DD is naturally very bright and a keen learner, which, as I say, you won't know for some years yet).

Yes you do probably have to wait a bit to see if she’s naturally bright enough……
we decided end of Year 4 to go for it and started tutoring in year 5. If she’s achieving greater depth in everything in year 4 and clearly one of the brightest in her year then it’s worth a go.
Best thing you can do until then is encourage a real love or reading and books. Get her reading widely, decent, well written books.

Thank you @LondonMum20222 for the advice on when it’s best to start thinking about it. My DD is bilingual so I guess I may need to look at her English as she is already lagging behind her peers (in terms of the breath of vocabulary in English) - one disadvantage of being bilingual. And given that TG exam seems to have a bigger weight for English rather than Math. It’s good to know that it doesn’t matter which area we are as I saw some threats saying that there are some feeder schools in Surbiton and Kingston where at least 12% of children are getting to TG each year while in designated areas is more like 5% but again we have few ears ahead so things may change.

Thank you very much @Mangotime - this is extremely helpful!

There are no official feeder schools. There are likely to be schools with a particular cohort of families who prioritise the 11+ and prepare accordingly, so more get in. It doesn't mean your individual child has any less chance from another school. A friend visited another (state) junior school and asked them what they did for the 11+ as they usually have more going to grammars, and they confirmed they don't do anything.

If you have a 4yo, I would just focus on the basics for their education for now - reading lots to them is great for vocabulary. Families will probably start discussing it all once the children are in about year 4. DD is in year 2 and families have begun to discuss it in relation to older siblings. It can be a bit secretive though!

As someone who’s youngest DD just went through the 11+ process (she’s in Y6), here’s some advice:

1. Relax. Seriously I mean it. Your DD is in reception. I understand there’s a lot of pressure and it feels like some are tutoring since birth (and honestly some are) but your DD is not remotely disadvantaged or behind with the 11+.

2. A lot can change from now and Y5. Firstly, with your daughter as she is too young to tell right now whether she’ll thrive at a school like Tiffins but also with the school itself. Exam format can change. Exam content can change. Catchment areas can change.

3. I would not even think about doing any formal tuition since Y4 at the very, very earliest. Right now, if you really want to start doing something then yeah reading widely as a PP mentioned is a good start. Ask her questions about the text and see how/if she answers. But again: if she doesn’t it’s fine, she’s literally 5.

I totally understand vocab concerns. DD is bilingual too. And honestly I don’t even remember what books we were reading to her besides what the school gave when she was in Reception. But relax. She’s got time and if she’s naturally capable enough, she’ll be fine.

Hi @BendingSpoons thank you for the clarification regarding the areas and the tips on reading! I can imagine it being a secretive topic as highly sensitive. I’ll keep my years open around Y4 and of course will hopefully know from my DD’s performance if this is worth pursuing. Thanks!

My goodness, that is some impressive degree of foresight.. but seriously as others have said, DO NOT even think about it for years and years. If she's not even started reception, there's every chance she can't even read yet? It's about half a decade too early to start thinking about where she might fit academically, let alone prepping for Tiffin. My DD (will start Tiffin in September) didn't start getting tutored until autumn of Y6. I took the view it sounds like you are, that I wouldn't have wanted her to get in purely because of years of intensive tutoring, becuase then realistically she would probably have needed to keep that up to keep pace with her contemporaries.

And as others have said, if you are in the designated area, that's it really. The only difference it would make to be in the inner area is if she were literally to be tied with the same number of marks as someone else, for the last available place ...

Oh, and while the second round is indeed slightly more weighted towards English than maths (60/40%) the first round is 50/50.

Though of course this could all totally change in the next 7 years!

So relax ;)

Thank you @Pleasegrowmore for your reply. This is really great to hear especially the reality of the designated vs inner areas. It’s also good to hear other people views for sanity and reality check. I guess it comes to the fact that I didn’t go through the schooling system in the UK and also experienced a family drama where someone hasn’t been supported enough due to the complete lack of foresight - different grammar school and area of London so having this discussion now really helps. Thank you very much!

@meki have this kind of foresight is good thinking.

In state primary we only started thinking the 11+ for our DD from start of yr5 and apprently it would have been much better if we consider this earlier.

At this stage I think all those admission procedure, tutoring, catchment, competition level etc might be irrelevant to your situation in 6 years time. All will change over time. One of the good news is that baby boom in SW London peak this year (or last) so IMO TGS entrance won't be as competitive as now then.

I would suggest you can try to encourage your DD to read, if she can develop herself become an avid reader in early stage this will make a lot of related learning easier when time comes.

Somebody asked the question on the RightTo Know website and received from the Tiffin Girls the list of postcodes for the girls that were accepted in 2022. Here it is

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/912786/response/2177662/attach/2/The%20Tiffin%20Girls%20school%20Postal%20Districts%20for%20Year%207s%20Sept%2022%20Sept%2021%20Sept%2020.xlsx?cookie_passthrough=1