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School Appeal, I need urgent advice please...

70 replies

NatM70 · 03/05/2023 19:16

Slightly devastated!...
My son did not get in to our school of choice, so I am appealing on medical and social grounds.

He suffers with anxiety, OCD, intrusive thoughts and sensory issues.
Though he's had a telephone call with CAMHS, who do believe he's on the Autistic spectrum, with probable ADHD/ADD, he's no formal diagnosis as yet due to the delays and long wait times.

He's also been chronically bullied throughout school and all of the children who've bullied him are going to the one (local) allocated to him (which we did not list). He needs a fresh start away from them.

Our school of choice has a very strong mental health system in place, excellent pastoral care and a strong and effective anti-bullying policy.
We have visited the school of choice (as we did the one allocated, which my son took an instant dislike to and begged me not to send him there) - It is perfect for our son, and we are 2.8 miles away as the crow flies.
It is the nearest school to us with all of the support our son needs.

My son came out absolutely beaming, he loved it, and was like a different kid compared to the one who came out of the one he's been allocated.

The admissions team did not take in to account his mental health or chronic bullying, so we are having to appeal.
They went on distance alone, we're 2.8 miles as the crow flies. They did not take in to account his mental health or chronic bullying.

The school have as criteria, in order: 2 - medical grounds, and 3 - social grounds. These come above siblings, catchment, etc., but these were not taken in to consideration at application.

He will not be attending the school he's been allocated, as it is not very good - They have hardly any mental health support, and the bullying is so out of control that I know of many children who’ve been taken out and moved to other schools as this school simply do nothing to protect the bullied children. If we sent him there, it would not only further disadvantage my son, but would extremely detrimental to his mental health, which we simply cannot allow.
I emailed them on 10/3/23 to ask for their policies, but nearly eight weeks later, they've still not replied, which just really backs up my grave concerns about this school.

I have submitted a very lengthy appeal, and have some evidence (especially re bullying, as provided by his current school), but as he's had no formal diagnosis yet by CAMHS, they can't confirm autism and possible ADHD/ADD, even though they strongly believe he has these after a telephone appointment with us, where they got to speak to my son too.
I have supportive letters and emails to and from from his current school re bullying and him needing mental health support and pastoral care, a general one from our GP as she's only just become involved as school told me we didn't need to involve our GP, they would sort the referral to CAMHS out (wish I'd not listened as if we'd gone to the GP, as it turns out, it would probably have been faster), and his CAMHS referrals.

ACE tell me we have a very strong case to appeal, but after 19 full days of research, phone calls, collating evidence, note making, typing up the appeal, adding to the appeal, and so forth, I am now running on empty!
A very kind lady from ACE who regularly sits on panels told me if my son's case was being heard by her, she would be putting it in the 'upheld' pile, bless her. She made me cry, in a good way...I wish she could be on the panel!

I am so worried I will fail my boy.
He's desperate to go to this school, where his best friends are going.
Whilst friends in school isn't great grounds for appeal, for kids like my son, it is really important he has this network to transition.

I am over-thinking things, I am just a wreck at the moment.

I am so worried that I may have said something wrong in my appeal.
His current school were really holding back on information, and the deadline to get all the information in was a day away, so I had to say my son had been called names by teachers at his current school, and I thought that was the reason they were not so forthcoming with the evidence I needed. I just needed to show I was trying to get the evidence, but at that point, his school didn't look like they were going to send the reports of bullying he's endured.
I am now worrying that was not a very good idea to put that in the appeal, but it's a bit late now (even though the school state that all staff are aware of his problems, that was not the case at the time he was called names).
I believe he was misunderstood by some teachers who weren't aware of his mental health issues, and he's never had an apology from them - He's a good kid, he really is, especially given all he has to deal with.
I also had to say that the local allocated school have very little in the way of provison to help my son, and that they still have not replied with the information I requested eight weeks ago - I am worried I have been negative, and constantly worrying I've said something wrong in my appeal.

I am also seriously worried that I've sent in too much in the form of my written appeal and the little evidence I do have. I don't seem to have the ability to consolidate, and I am worrying myself stupid that the appeal is extremely long, and it will really get me off to the wrong start with the Appeals Panel before they even meet me!
I am just trying to fight for my boy, but I am now scared silly the appeal is so long that the panel will be seriously upset with me because of the length of it, and points mentioned above.

I really need advice - The hearing in on 9/5/23, next Tuesday.
Please can anyone help me?

And sorry for the long post (if you think this is long, you want to see the appeal!)

TIA

OP posts:
StandUpForYourRights · 03/05/2023 19:25

Please don't worry too much, you have done everything you can and it sounds like you have put together a very comprehensive package. I practically had a booklet by the time I had finished.

Don't worry about being emotional or OTT, your are his mum and its expected and not a negativeat all.

All the very best for the hearing. Flowers

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/05/2023 19:27

I'm not sure if you'd want to get your name removed, as this could be a bit identifying? You can report your thread to Mumsnet in order to do this. Hopefully some of the real experts will be along soon.

Some points I would make:

  • You need to remember you are appealing for the school you want, not against the allocated school- so points about bullying there are less relevant.
  • You need to explain why you think the pastoral care at the school you want is so good and why it is specifically necessary for your son.
  • ADHD and OCD are relatively common conditions, it would be expected that every school could support a student with these conditions.
  • Bullying is also sadly not uncommon in primary school, every secondary school would be expected to support transition for a student who has been bullied.

You need to find out what your council class as exceptional medical or social need- in general, bullying would not fit the criteria. His medical conditions might but you would need strong supporting evidence from a medical professional, I believe. Are CAMHS willing to write anything in support? He doesn't need a diagnosis for them to say his needs would be best met by school X, and for them to explain why.

You have explained why you don't believe the allocated school is suitable- but what is it specifically that your chosen school offers (beyond friends) that makes it essential that your son goes there? Because that is the key point for the appeal.

Have you seen the school's case yet?

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/05/2023 19:28

BTW, you could start the ball rolling for an ECHP, you do not need a diagnosis for this, just evidence of need. You could then name the school you wanted on the ECHP. (I'm making this sound simple, and it's not).

This may well take several months, but if you are not going to send him to the allocated school, it would be worth getting started now.

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 19:32

Whatever happens, you won’t have failed your child because you have tried your best and have used the options open to you.

All I would suggest now is that you use the hearing to explain to the panel how and why the preferred school will be better able to support your son’s mental health needs and provide pastoral support. The school is likely to be arguing that all schools can support a range of pupils with diverse needs so, if you can give examples of things that are available at the preferred school but not at the allocated school, that will help.

There's nothing wrong with submitting a very long appeal statement. The panel will have read it, so don’t waste time at the hearing reading it all out again. Remind the panel of the key points and use the time to provide (say) extra detail or examples.

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:37

I think this is one of the rare instances where arguing against the offered school will help. Don't criticise the school, but do make it clear that your child has been bullied by children who will go to the school your DS has been offered.

PanelChair is right and remember, appeals panels aren't looking to stop your child getting a place. They are there to make sure the right decision is made.

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:47

Whilst im sorry you are going through this and think you have very valid reasons i would prepare yourself to send your child to the school you have been allocated. That or risk ending up in the only school that has spaces... the other side of the city in our experience.
Its incredibly hard to win an appeal and whilst i believe everything you are saying withiut evidence and formal diagnosis an appeal is very unlikely.
We never got any of our 5 choices and got the school no one wanted. I went through every appeal, even with documented concerns.
However, 8 months in and the school has been amazing for my son. Whilst friends have removed thier children from thier first choice schools. I hope it works out for you but i just want you to prepare yourself. Sending you loads of luck xxx

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:49

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:37

I think this is one of the rare instances where arguing against the offered school will help. Don't criticise the school, but do make it clear that your child has been bullied by children who will go to the school your DS has been offered.

PanelChair is right and remember, appeals panels aren't looking to stop your child getting a place. They are there to make sure the right decision is made.

They will tell you they, like all schools have systems in place to manage it. Which they will. I know its not what you want to hear but its not a winning appeal point unfortunately. They will say the same about sen needs.

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:57

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:49

They will tell you they, like all schools have systems in place to manage it. Which they will. I know its not what you want to hear but its not a winning appeal point unfortunately. They will say the same about sen needs.

That's funny, because I've sat on several appeals panels where a child has been bullied in a previous school and it has been taken into account. I'm not saying that on its own it will necessarily win, and formal evidence is always helpful, but you can't say that it won't be taken into account by a panel, unless you're on it.

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:13

Yes, I think a lot will depend on the circumstances in each appeal - and I would want to know why the approach many schools adopt of making sure the child was not in the same form group as their previous bullies was not sufficient - but panels can consider issues around bullying. Similarly, they can consider issues around mental health and pastoral needs but will need evidence of how and why the provision in the preferred school is better and relevant to the child, not just a general sense that the preferred school does things better.

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 20:15

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:57

That's funny, because I've sat on several appeals panels where a child has been bullied in a previous school and it has been taken into account. I'm not saying that on its own it will necessarily win, and formal evidence is always helpful, but you can't say that it won't be taken into account by a panel, unless you're on it.

Ok but it did happen to us. Even with evidence from junior school and doctors, But hey ho

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:20

Each appeal turns on its own facts and is determined on the balance of prejudice, ie does the prejudice (detriment) to the child if they’re not admitted outweigh the prejudice to the school if they have to accommodate an additional pupil. The fact that you didn’t win an appeal raising apparently similar issues doesn’t mean that all appeals raising those issues will fail - much depends on the detail and (especially) the strength of the school’s case.

Lougle · 03/05/2023 20:25

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 20:15

Ok but it did happen to us. Even with evidence from junior school and doctors, But hey ho

I'm sorry to hear that. It will all depend on the panel and the strength of the school's case. That's why nobody can ever say that an appeal argument will win or lose. They can only say that it's strong or weak in comparison to other arguments that could be offered.

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 20:35

Lougle · 03/05/2023 20:25

I'm sorry to hear that. It will all depend on the panel and the strength of the school's case. That's why nobody can ever say that an appeal argument will win or lose. They can only say that it's strong or weak in comparison to other arguments that could be offered.

Oh you absolutely 💯 have to try and i think she should. I hope it works for her. Ive been in her shoes and its a big worry. Its a hard time.

NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:25

Thanks so much for your reply, I do appreciate it.
Did you win your appeal? I hope so x

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:26

StandUpForYourRights · 03/05/2023 19:25

Please don't worry too much, you have done everything you can and it sounds like you have put together a very comprehensive package. I practically had a booklet by the time I had finished.

Don't worry about being emotional or OTT, your are his mum and its expected and not a negativeat all.

All the very best for the hearing. Flowers

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
I am just praying now!
Did you win your appeal? I hope so.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:32

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/05/2023 19:27

I'm not sure if you'd want to get your name removed, as this could be a bit identifying? You can report your thread to Mumsnet in order to do this. Hopefully some of the real experts will be along soon.

Some points I would make:

  • You need to remember you are appealing for the school you want, not against the allocated school- so points about bullying there are less relevant.
  • You need to explain why you think the pastoral care at the school you want is so good and why it is specifically necessary for your son.
  • ADHD and OCD are relatively common conditions, it would be expected that every school could support a student with these conditions.
  • Bullying is also sadly not uncommon in primary school, every secondary school would be expected to support transition for a student who has been bullied.

You need to find out what your council class as exceptional medical or social need- in general, bullying would not fit the criteria. His medical conditions might but you would need strong supporting evidence from a medical professional, I believe. Are CAMHS willing to write anything in support? He doesn't need a diagnosis for them to say his needs would be best met by school X, and for them to explain why.

You have explained why you don't believe the allocated school is suitable- but what is it specifically that your chosen school offers (beyond friends) that makes it essential that your son goes there? Because that is the key point for the appeal.

Have you seen the school's case yet?

I can't edit the post, so I think I'll have to remove the post? Arrghh!

Thanks for your advice. I've asked CAMHS, but nothing as yet.

The mental health support - 35 qualified mental health first aiders, 35 trained peer support tutors, and every teacher is trained as a SEND teacher.

Yes, I've seen the school's case, it is simply oversubscribed.
I've found holes in their statement, which I've made notes of.

I'll keep on at CAMHS to see if they can write me an urgent letter.

Thank you.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:32

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/05/2023 19:27

I'm not sure if you'd want to get your name removed, as this could be a bit identifying? You can report your thread to Mumsnet in order to do this. Hopefully some of the real experts will be along soon.

Some points I would make:

  • You need to remember you are appealing for the school you want, not against the allocated school- so points about bullying there are less relevant.
  • You need to explain why you think the pastoral care at the school you want is so good and why it is specifically necessary for your son.
  • ADHD and OCD are relatively common conditions, it would be expected that every school could support a student with these conditions.
  • Bullying is also sadly not uncommon in primary school, every secondary school would be expected to support transition for a student who has been bullied.

You need to find out what your council class as exceptional medical or social need- in general, bullying would not fit the criteria. His medical conditions might but you would need strong supporting evidence from a medical professional, I believe. Are CAMHS willing to write anything in support? He doesn't need a diagnosis for them to say his needs would be best met by school X, and for them to explain why.

You have explained why you don't believe the allocated school is suitable- but what is it specifically that your chosen school offers (beyond friends) that makes it essential that your son goes there? Because that is the key point for the appeal.

Have you seen the school's case yet?

I can't edit the post, so I think I'll have to remove the post? Arrghh!

Thanks for your advice. I've asked CAMHS, but nothing as yet.

The mental health support - 35 qualified mental health first aiders, 35 trained peer support tutors, and every teacher is trained as a SEND teacher.

Yes, I've seen the school's case, it is simply oversubscribed.
I've found holes in their statement, which I've made notes of.

I'll keep on at CAMHS to see if they can write me an urgent letter.

Thank you.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:34

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/05/2023 19:28

BTW, you could start the ball rolling for an ECHP, you do not need a diagnosis for this, just evidence of need. You could then name the school you wanted on the ECHP. (I'm making this sound simple, and it's not).

This may well take several months, but if you are not going to send him to the allocated school, it would be worth getting started now.

Does his current school have to do this for him please, or can I do this?

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:37

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 19:32

Whatever happens, you won’t have failed your child because you have tried your best and have used the options open to you.

All I would suggest now is that you use the hearing to explain to the panel how and why the preferred school will be better able to support your son’s mental health needs and provide pastoral support. The school is likely to be arguing that all schools can support a range of pupils with diverse needs so, if you can give examples of things that are available at the preferred school but not at the allocated school, that will help.

There's nothing wrong with submitting a very long appeal statement. The panel will have read it, so don’t waste time at the hearing reading it all out again. Remind the panel of the key points and use the time to provide (say) extra detail or examples.

Thank you, I just can't imagine not getting him in, he's already so upset he didn't get in straight away.
He's more anxious than ever.

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:41

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:37

I think this is one of the rare instances where arguing against the offered school will help. Don't criticise the school, but do make it clear that your child has been bullied by children who will go to the school your DS has been offered.

PanelChair is right and remember, appeals panels aren't looking to stop your child getting a place. They are there to make sure the right decision is made.

Thank you, I do need to state re the allocated school, as there is nothing on their website about anything to do with mental health or pastoral care. I requested policies 8 weeks ago, and they have not replied to me.
I know of so many children who are suffering there, and also have had to be taken out of there.

Thanks so much.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:44

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:47

Whilst im sorry you are going through this and think you have very valid reasons i would prepare yourself to send your child to the school you have been allocated. That or risk ending up in the only school that has spaces... the other side of the city in our experience.
Its incredibly hard to win an appeal and whilst i believe everything you are saying withiut evidence and formal diagnosis an appeal is very unlikely.
We never got any of our 5 choices and got the school no one wanted. I went through every appeal, even with documented concerns.
However, 8 months in and the school has been amazing for my son. Whilst friends have removed thier children from thier first choice schools. I hope it works out for you but i just want you to prepare yourself. Sending you loads of luck xxx

I'm so sorry to hear that, but I am glad the school has been great for your son.
I am very concerned, I have some documents from school and the GP, and CAMHS referrals, but I will try to get more.
And just pray!
Thank you xx

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:47

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:49

They will tell you they, like all schools have systems in place to manage it. Which they will. I know its not what you want to hear but its not a winning appeal point unfortunately. They will say the same about sen needs.

The allocated school may say they have policies in place, but they're just not implementing them.
All I can do is hope I suppose.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:48

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:57

That's funny, because I've sat on several appeals panels where a child has been bullied in a previous school and it has been taken into account. I'm not saying that on its own it will necessarily win, and formal evidence is always helpful, but you can't say that it won't be taken into account by a panel, unless you're on it.

Thank you.
I have strong evidence of this from his current school.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:51

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:13

Yes, I think a lot will depend on the circumstances in each appeal - and I would want to know why the approach many schools adopt of making sure the child was not in the same form group as their previous bullies was not sufficient - but panels can consider issues around bullying. Similarly, they can consider issues around mental health and pastoral needs but will need evidence of how and why the provision in the preferred school is better and relevant to the child, not just a general sense that the preferred school does things better.

Thank you for your reply.
I have really researched both schools and have documented everything in the appeal.
I hope I can get a letter from CAMHS in time, as I have strong evidence from his current school re bullying, and recommendations re his mental health along with his CAMHS referrals.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:56

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:20

Each appeal turns on its own facts and is determined on the balance of prejudice, ie does the prejudice (detriment) to the child if they’re not admitted outweigh the prejudice to the school if they have to accommodate an additional pupil. The fact that you didn’t win an appeal raising apparently similar issues doesn’t mean that all appeals raising those issues will fail - much depends on the detail and (especially) the strength of the school’s case.

I haven't lost any previous appeals, this is the first one.
The school's case is as expected, and I have found quite a few things in there I can question.
My son's friend got in on appeal to that school with the same reasons as my son, but this is a baby boom year, so I think there are more appeals.
Fingers and everything crossed!

OP posts:
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