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Secondary education

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Original poster

Offered place at higher pref school and previously offered and accepted place withdrawn?

52 replies

glassespet · 02/05/2023 12:38

Dc was offered 2nd pref secondary school, and accepted that place with a waiting list place at 1st pref school.
Dc has some SEN and has already started the transition process with accepted place. Now have got an email offering place at 1st pref school saying previously offered place has now been withdrawn. I still have to either accept or decline this offer. If I decline it, will I still have the place at 2nd pref school, or will that now have been offered to someone else?

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SheilaFentiman · 02/05/2023 12:42

Different local authorities do it differently. You need to ring yours asap to discuss.

PatriciaHolm · 02/05/2023 12:43

They absolutely shouldn't take the place away - there are very limited grounds on which an offered place can be withdrawn.

However, unfortunately, some LAs still operate a system where if you are offered a higher preference off a waiting list, they will assume you want that and withdraw the previous offer. You need to talk to them asap; if they try to, they may try to force you to appeal to regain the place.

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 12:55

Ah crap - I'll phone them. They're impossible to get through to.

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SuperSue77 · 02/05/2023 13:24

Best of luck! We got offered 4th choice and are appealing for 1st choice, but having done further research have realised 2nd choice is absolutely not the school for our son - so I rang the school and asked to be removed from the wait list (ended up needing an e-mail to the LA to get it sorted) as I’d much prefer 4th choice to 2nd choice and there was a chance we might get offered 2nd choice through waiting list.
sounds as though from what PatriciaHolm says they mustn’t take away the place you accepted, so hope you get through to them soon!

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 14:05

@PatriciaHolm called them, they have withdrawn the 2nd choice school place. I've emailed urgently saying we don't want to lose that place, but are they actually allowed to do this? You said they have limited grounds to withdraw - is being on the waiting list for 1st choice school a legitimate ground?

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PatriciaHolm · 02/05/2023 14:17

No - the admissions code says - the "must not" has the force of law.

"2.13 An admission authority must not withdraw an offer unless it has been offered in error, a parent has not responded within a reasonable period of time, or it is established that the offer was obtained through a fraudulent or intentionally misleading application. Where the parent has not responded to the offer, the admission authority must give the parent a further opportunity to respond and explain that the offer may be withdrawn if they do not. Where an offer is withdrawn on the basis of misleading information, the application must be considered afresh, and a right of appeal offered if an offer is refused."

They cannot withdraw a place just because they are now able to offer a higher preference. They will probably try to argue that by being on a waiting list for a higher preference, you have given tacit approval for the withdrawal, but they cannot do that. Is is written in anything you received from them before today that they will remove the place if a higher preference is offered?

I would reply citing the above, if you wish to retain the place, and make it clear you understand that they cannot just withdraw the place. Unfortunately they may still disagree, in which case I would put in an immediate appeal.

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 14:39

@PatriciaHolm thank you, I will send a further email quoting that. The woman on the phone said that it was written in the admissions guise - I don't remember seeing it there. I don't know if that would make it ok, if it is clearly written there and I've missed it?

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SuperSue77 · 02/05/2023 15:02

Oh no, how worrying and frustrating. I don’t think they can reasonably expect you to have read and remembered some part of an admissions guide in the case of something so important. I think you have a really strong argument to get them to reinstate the original offer. Got everything crossed for you.

SheilaFentiman · 02/05/2023 15:24

I don’t know where the OP is but Herts is one county that does this. For reasons that the experts (including @PatriciaHolm ) have said, I think it’s a crappy practice and you should have at least a short window to respond with a final choice.

https://www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/services/schools-and-education/school-admissions/secondary-and-upper-schools/secondary-school-place-offers/secondary-school-place-offers.aspx#accept

PanelChair · 02/05/2023 15:54

I agree with PatriciaHolm. This is not one of those very limited circumstances in which (under the admissions code) the LEA can withdraw the offer of a school place. The fact that they might say in the local admissions guide that they will do something contrary to the admissions code does not make it right!

PatriciaHolm · 02/05/2023 15:56

glassespet · 02/05/2023 14:39

@PatriciaHolm thank you, I will send a further email quoting that. The woman on the phone said that it was written in the admissions guise - I don't remember seeing it there. I don't know if that would make it ok, if it is clearly written there and I've missed it?

As PanelChair says, they can't get over their legal obligations by telling you they are going to ignore them! So do push back again.

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 15:58

I have emailed again quoting the code and saying I do not believed they are entitled to withdraw the offer. Their automated reply says that they will respond within 7 days and in the meantime ds has an appointment to meet with a student mentor in the 2nd place school as part of the ongoing supported transition arrangements and I am not sure that this will go ahead which will exacerbate his anxieties even more. I honestly feel like crying.

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Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 15:59

Thank you for all advice. I'm so stressed out and have to keep it together to hide it from ds so that he doesn't become (more) stressed as well.

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prh47bridge · 02/05/2023 18:42

Agree with others that they are not allowed to do this. Sadly, a number of LAs ignore the Admissions Code and withdraw places illegally. I hope they don't make you appeal to get the place back. If they do, it should be an easy win (and the appeal panel should refer the LA to the Schools Adjudicator to get their Admission Arrangements changed so they don't do it again).

Lougle · 02/05/2023 18:56

I wonder if those LAs are withdrawing the first offer because the code says that a child can't hold two offers. However, as said upthread, they can't withdraw the place offered originally, so the only sensible and legal thing to do would be to ask you if you still want the first choice place, then act accordingly.

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 20:03

That is what I thought they'd do - surely it makes much more sense to offer 1st choice from waiting list and only withdraw the other place if you accept the subsequently offered place.

I don't understand why the LA would do it the other way if they're clearly wrong to do so? I guess our situation is unusual and usually people jump at the chance of the higher choice offer.

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Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 20:05

I can't even wait for them to get back to me because I have 5 days to accept this offer and if I don't I'll lose that and then they'll have no school places at all, which would be utterly ludicrous - to go from being offered both 2nd and 1st place schools to having no place.

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prh47bridge · 02/05/2023 21:19

Can you phone them?

Original poster
glassespet · 02/05/2023 21:54

I phoned today, they told me to send an email marked urgent, which I've done. The automated response has a whole load of scenarios telling you what to do or expect in each - I guess the most relevant to my situation is a question about a current application which they say if appropriate the allocated officer will contact you about. And it says that if none of the scenarios apply then they will get back to you in 7 days.

I will try calling again tomorrow. It took me an hour to get through today. Ugh.

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HappiDaze · 02/05/2023 22:03

That's weird they should let you make the choice without taking the current place away

Did you start an appeal or make a fuss when he wasn't initially offered his first choice place

Original poster
glassespet · 03/05/2023 06:57

No - I just accepted the place offered and was put on the waiting list for pref 1. Then we've started the transition and I've realised that he will be better there so I was planning to refuse a place a choice 1 if offered. Now this. I'm actually panicking now and haven't been able to sleep last night. I accepted choice 2 and got on with the transition stuff because I knew he needed a long and settled transition process. If we end up having to appeal it will mess that all up and he will basically end up not being able to attend secondary, at least initially. He just won't manage. I actually cannot believe this is happening.

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SheilaFentiman · 03/05/2023 07:02

Good luck on the phone, I hope this can be resolved quickly.

Setyoufree · 03/05/2023 07:02

I'd get onto your MP and also keep phoning them. If they say email, politely but firmly explain why you need a resolution today. Keep going. Ask to speak to a manager. Push push push.

I've had a bit of experience with Herts, not in this circumstance but they were very helpful eventually when I got through to the right person. Up to that point though I just got computer says no over and over

Original poster
glassespet · 03/05/2023 07:47

Thank you - I will do that today. It's not herts btw

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Original poster
glassespet · 03/05/2023 11:40

LA are saying that they operate an opt out waiting list system, I didn't ask to be removed from the waiting list, 2nd choice school is now full, I'd have to change preferences and go on the waiting list for 2nd choice school, and that 2.13 doesn't apply because 1st choice school was pref one so when a place was offered there the previous place was withdrawn.

I am going to have to either accept it and restart transition with 1st choice school or appeal and lose all the time for transition which had been planned with choice 2 aren't I?

This is so fucked up.

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