Graveney School

[Norgirl71]

Hi, DC has an offer for the sixth form at Graveney School in south London. It seems like a great school but we don't know any parents with children there so have no idea what it's really like. A few questions come to mind: are the sixth-formers put in ability sets or do they all mix together in class? Do external students fit in OK? Has your DC done well there? (And anything else plse). We've got to start thinking about this now so any help much appreciated!

It's a great school. Large. Kids need to be self-starters and quite independent in pushing themselves, but the teachers will meet them. However, they do not spoon feed them at all. If kids do well, it is because they have the initiative to work hard. I found most of the teaching there to be excellent. My DS is currently there and My DD has left now and was there from year 7. She's gone on to Oxford so I'm not complaining. Kids can do really well there. They don't stream at the 6th form. They pretty much stop that at GCSE depending on the subject. I do think it is harder for external students to come at 6th form, but I think that can be true of any school because the kids who stay have their friendship groups established, but my daughter made new friends who came from other schools and they became part of her established friendship group. The kids there are pretty nice from what I've seen and met. Feel free to DM me

I don't have recent experience of the sixth form, only lower school.

My understanding based on not very recent or first hand knowledge is that the only sixth form streaming that takes place is the further maths bods doing regular maths and maybe psychics separately from people who don't do further maths.

I don't think you'll find many schools that stream in sixth form (state schools anyway). They all have to reach a minimum standard to take the subject in the first place.

One of mine went to Graveney for A levels.

The teaching was very good. Less individual or pastoral intervention than at another good 6th form I know of.

No streaming, but they needed to have been at the required level to to the A level subject anyway. I don't know any 6th Forms that have entry requirements that then stream / set.

It does take a little settling in for new students - but there re loads of extra-curricular offers that help. Mine found their feet when they signed up for the student show that the 6th form do.

Thanks everyone for your responses - very useful.

Would anyone with children at Graveney lower down in the school be able to comment.

What is the difference between Upper and Extension for instance? Are the targets very different and is there any movement between the two classes ever?

I've been a parent at Graveney now for many years. I have one who has already left and another currently doing GCSE's. There isn't a lot of difference between Extension and Upper and when the kids are in year 10 the classes do mix. Their form stays the same the entire time, but as they do their options and also depending on their progress they are put in the set that suits their ability in that subject. So subject classes do mix as they move through the school.

Thank you that's really helpful @Artsyblartsymum what I've read online from others seemed to imply it's almost segregated so Extension is like a grammar school and the rest of the school is a normal 'comp' but it's good to hear that Upper still get a look in.

Do they set for everything? I'm sure maths, but maybe languages and science also? But everything else in their forms? It sounds you are in a form but go to setted classes for quite a few things but in your form you might have a mix of children from all bands of ability. Is that how it works?

I've read also you need to a confident self-starter to get on at Graveney? Does that ring true?

Is there any bullying? I guess there's always something going on at any school but DS is a bit shy and quiet, sensitive boy. He does attract quite a lot of mean comments where he is currently and hasn't quite learnt to banter yet with other boys his own age. He's getting there but it takes time to think of something witty that's not too mean so he ends up saying nothing. He'd be an in-year admission moving from his current secondary.

The kids stay in their form for most classes until GCSE’s. Then it mixes more. So, regarding languages if that form does Spanish, they all do Spanish. Is there bullying, yes. There is bullying at every school and if any school tells you there isn’t, they’re lying, but my ds was very shy and awkward when he started year 7. He’s not into sports, and kids in his form, mostly boys, were mean towards him. But the school and in particular, his form tutor was great. He’s now in year 11 and flourishing. It’s a very big school. They can find their people. You do need to be a self-starter imo. But I have found most of the teachers to be dedicated, enthusiastic and really caring. They are also excellent at supporting the students at every level. I don’t feel it is 2 separate schools. Only about 63 kids get in on the test. Extension is much bigger than that. My ds’s year has 4 extension classes. It’s a very good school. Is it perfect? No. But I have another DS at a very regarded grammar school and I think Graveney is a much better school for a variety of reasons. It’s a very good option. Good luck.

The tools they use to stream for year 7 (WT, SATs) are quite blunt, so there's a fair bit of movement between streams, eg it wouldn't be unusual for say 5 kids from a single top class to be moved down and replaced by 5 from middle over the course of say years 7 and 8 combined. Maths setting takes place from the start of year 8, it again wouldn't be uncommon for say 5 kids in one of the 2 top maths sets to be from the middle stream, ie outside the top 4 form groups, you'd be talking about kids who were bright but not necessarily all-rounders, e.g. maybe a non-native English speaker or two in this category?

@Artsyblartsymum would you mind sharing a bit more about why Graveney's been better for you than the well-regarded grammar for your DS? Is the grammar all-boys?

There are more subject choices and options at Graveney and because the school has kids from all types of academic backgrounds they really do focus on teaching the kids. Meeting them at their level and bringing them as far as they can with the work that the child also puts into the subject. Kids do learn and grow academically at different rates for so many reasons. The grammar has very smart kids at the start, so some of the teaching actually has been poor. My DS (yes it is all boys until the 6th form now) has taught himself in quite a few subjects. For physics, the school had come up with an online program that they farm out to other schools and my son was mostly taught by that program with the teacher just sitting at the front of the class. I thought that was rubbish. I ended up getting him a tutor so someone would actually teach him in that subject. The grammar is cutthroat at the end of GCSE. Many kids in my sons year, didn't get asked back to the 6th form because they got a 5 or 6 in a subject, but I ask, why is that, if when they started they were so ahead of the game. That has something to do with the teaching and the complacency of the teachers at the school. At Graveney you can choose an A-Level subject if you have a 6/7. At the Grammar you have to have an 8 or higher to choose that subject for A-Level. Graveney offers some great options as well at Twilight, so both my DC at were able to do early an GCSE from year 8 after/before school which freed up a slot for their actual GCSE's. I thought that was great. One did early music, the other did early drama, but they have other subjects and one of my DC was able to also do an extra twilight language for fun, while the other who can't do A-level music because of what he wants to do at uni has been doing a music bridging course during his GCSE years to keep developing that knowledge. The teachers are so dedicated there. The Grammar is rigid in its subject pathways. For instance, my DS had to choose between History and Geography, Drama and Latin. He couldn't do both. And, I will say the Grammar isn't interested in your opinion as a parent. They are complacent and on paper they are very successful so they follow their method. Sport is the only thing that I would say is better at the Grammar. My DS at the grammar has enjoyed his time there and it was a good option for him at the time. He's made some nice friends, made good grades, etc. But, in no way was the education superior to Graveney. The Grammar may get more kids into Oxbridge, but those kids were probably already on that pathway when they started the school.

Oh, yes, and my DS at the Grammar hardly did any school trips. DOFE was terribly organised and doesn't seem to be encouraged at the Grammar, whereas all my DC at Graveney have had loads of educational fun trips and have loved doing DOFE and the school is super supportive.

@Artsyblartsymum thank you very much for the detailed replies. It's really helpful. It's really lovely your DS is flourishing and doing so well. I worry about my DS and making friends that's all otherwise I'd move him like a shot.

Final question if you wouldn't mind answering one more, is there much movement in the school?

We aren't close by so it's a long shot if he'd get in. Is it better to try earlier on Year 7 and Year 8 or better waiting until Year 9 or 10? Would it make any difference? He's year 7 now, close to finishing the summer term and I'm wondering do I put his name down in the summer to try for a space in Year 8. I've no idea how much turnover there is and if we'd have a chance from so far away. I'm guessing that it's just by distance once the first 63 are taken in by the WT so no chance to try for an 'extension' space.

We do know someone who lived our way who got her daughter in in Year 10.... that was some years ago now. Thank you again.

It really depends. My DS had some kids leave in his form and then they had some new kids. They also moved someone up from upper when someone left. That happens in every year group and every form. There are also siblings and looked after kids at the top of the list, then distance. I've never done waitlist and moved schools so I'm not very knowledgeable on that. Sorry, not much help on this question from me.

@Vive42 I am fairly sure that the waitlist for in-year places is on distance only (and siblings and so forth), there is no "selective ability" waitlist anymore from y8 onwards. I am sure of this bc I had a younger one who got in via the wandsworth test but an older one on the in-year waitlist. We had no chance getting in via distance and there was no way to test in in Year 8. They did say once younger one accepts the selective place, the older one will count as a sibling. But if you only have a child of secondary school age already, you would have to live very close by to be offered a place, the waiting list is very long (we live in Wandsworth and DD1 was about #500 on the in-year waitlist - !!!).

So unless you live very close to the school, I imagine 16+ is the most realistic entry point.

Hi @Artsyblartsymum thank you for your insights above. We have a son who has an offer to start year 7 in September.
He has dyslexia and needs a lot of scaffolding to get concepts in math. So we’d expect him to be in the middle/lowe sets. Do you know if we could expect him to be supported by the teachers giving him scaffolding and interventions? Or would we need to provide this via tutoring?
many thanks in advance

He will be supported. But I think if you also know he would benefit from weekly one on one to help them keep up with the learning, tutoring will certainly help.