JCoSS (vs a top private school)

[Buru]

Good morning all. There is an old thread on JCoSS, so I thought I’d start a new one to get more recent reviews and insights.

We have just unexpectedly received a place at JCoSS, which was our top choice for a state school together with Yavneh. However, as our original state school option was at the bottom of our wishlist and DD did very well on 11+ exams, we accepted an offer from a top private school in north London.

We feel a bit confused now, as a private school is of course a lot of money (and we have two more children), and JCoSS seems to have a great reputation. Can moms please share their experience and views on JCoSS and the area for raising children (in particular, if there are many options for extracurricular activities at a semi-professional level (sports, gymnastics, ballet etc)? Would you choose it over a selective private school if you had that option?

We will be moving up north from central London, so it’s a huge change for us and I would welcome any views and opinions on the matter.

You will get more responses if you clarify what these acronyms are for. You are assuming that we all know what you are talking about

That’s unnecessary! Anyone who has info to help the OP will know so if you don’t know it’s not relevant to you anyway!

Well I looked because I'm inquisitive and whilst I'm still none the wiser on the acronyms, (no, not going to google because I'm not that interested), I chuckling away at the description of moving "up North" and had to double check the OP still meant within London.

Watch out, OP, I've heard it's grim up North

Thank you @Lochroy and @thesunsoutagain and apologies - I see a lot of acronyms used on Mumsnet and assumed it’s customary/expected.

JCoSS is the Jewish Community Secondary School in New Barnet, London. The other school we are considering is also in north London. We’re not considering moving outside of London but it’s nevertheless a big change for us, as we are now in SW area.

DD is “darling daughter” if I correctly understood Mumsnet jargon.

No worries OP, thanks for explaining. I also used to live in SW London but to me, up North was Yorkshire!

Hope you get some actually helpful replies

If you don't know what JCoSS stands for, you don't know anything helpful for the OP, though.

OP, JCoSS is an excellent school, but of course what you get there that you won't get at the alternative is the Jewish education, so I suspect a large part of your decision should be on how important the Jewish side of it is. Compared to, say, NLCS, it will be quite a different focus, as well as saving you £20k+ a year!

I just checked and my sat nav says 16 miles drive from Barnet to Central London . And Barnet is still London, within the M25 ( the orbital motorway around us to keep Northerners and the like out of our city.

London is a very big city @Lochroy

Sorry OP for jumping on this thread!

The people I know who have DC at JCOSS are very happy with their progress and the children are happy there. The question really is do you want a Jewish education for your DC? There are Jewish girls at both NLCS and Habs.

@Buru thanks for explaining that. I agree that people do use acronyms a lot on here. Being a naturally inquisitive (nosy) person If I see something I don't understand I'll ask. Also being a teacher and educational advisor and having lived and worked for years in London right across north south and N east London I was stumped about JCoSs and now I know 😀👍

Jcoss is an amazing school and has done well under Patrick Moriarity. However, he has now left and they have a never head who may be phenomenal but we just don't know yet. However, my friends experiences there have all been positive and i don't think I've heard anyone say a bad word about it.

Private schools are an option. The obvious downside is cost. They're all min £20k a year and i don't think i'd be able to send one child and not the other two. So that's over £60k a year on school fees. Plus uniforms, trips etc and a lot of the private school people round here also have tutors despite being in private school so that's all in all prob about £80 a year which means you need an additional £120k a year income you're not using (once you've paid tax). Can you afford to keep doing that for at least the next decade? What happens if you or your partner loses their job?

I also think it depends which private school you are looking at as well. how well will your child thrive ie. my child wouldn't thrive in NCLS as too pressurised but would thrive at St helens where theyre more about nuturing (well that's what they used to be like but not sure now). Would your child be ok being the only jewish kid in the year as with Yavneh, JCOSS and JFS there are far less jewish kids in private schools than there were a generation ago

My son's Jewish friend (from their private prep school ) went there and I think was very happy. There had been a death of the bread winner in the family and I think school fees would have been a problem hence the change. I haven't heard how that boy did for a few years but he certainly liked it when he started.

We paid school fees - NLCS, Habs, MTS etc but I could afford it and I wanted to pay (I went to feel paying school). Loads of people do fine in the better London state schools however and plenty left my sons' private school at 16 for London state school sixth forms.
It sounds like you may not want or be able to pay school fees for 3 children (and I do strongly feel all children should be treated the same) so you could try the state one which obviously may get you the Jewish education part you need (we are Catholics but did not consider state catholic schools as that was not so important for us and there were facilities for most religions at their fee paying schools eg Cahtolic mass at Haberdashers and in fact at one point my Catholic daughter at Habs used to go the Jewish morning assembly at school because that was closer to her classroom and it was quicker!)

When looking at schools I usually look at where the leavers go - do most go to university and if so which universities - good ones, poor ones? , what are A level grades like in upper sixth and compare on that basis. We live in NW London and my youngest have just come out the other side - last university exams last summer for my twins.

You’ll get a brilliant education and your child will have the same outcomes as they would get from a to private school. These schools live and die on their results and they’ll end up at the same universities on the same courses as their contemporaries at the top private schools

They won’t get the sport drama and music as they would get at. Top independent school but it’s not bad at all. They will get the intrinsic advantage understanding of giving back to the community and becoming involved in community and charity and giving back as this is intrinsic in the ethos of these schools

they’ll be in a mixed ability school where behaviour although unlikely to be bad won’t be as good as it would be in a private school and year 7/8 behaviour can take a while to settle down

only you can decide if the downsides are worth £25k a year to avoid. Personally, we took the view it wasn’t and I’m happy with the decision,

I know the head of JCoss, I am completely convinced they couldn’t have found a better successor to Patrick moriarty

If sending 3 kids to a private school will be a stretch or a worry, I'd take this. I've never really heard anything massively bad about JCOSS. It has the best reputation out of the Jewish schools.
There is no guarantee your other two will get places via 11+ to private schools and if sending them to state will be a dilemma, I think it would be silly to not take this place. You won't have the stress of fees and they will all be in one place.

DS is in Y12 at JCoSS and has been there since Y7. We have been extremely happy with it up to now. The provisions put in place during lockdown were excellent and communication with the teachers has been fantastic throughout. Even during the recent strikes, there have been some live lessons and plenty of work set for them to do at home.

We asked DS if he wanted to look elsewhere for 6th form, but he was adamant that he wanted to stay. However, the headteacher, Mr Moriarty has left and we'll have to see what the future holds under the new head. She has come from Yavneh. DS came home earlier this week and told us that one of his A level subjects, classes are going to be merged in Y13, so go from small classes per subject, to much larger. Apparently the new headteacher is moving funding from some STEM subjects to JE.

What has always impressed us about the school is how well the teachers get to know the pupils. DS is one of the quieter students, but the teachers have always managed to get to know him as an individual. When he was struggling with something during his GCSEs, he could just go and speak to them during Lu ch and get help.

I really hope the school doesn't change too much under the new head!

I should also have said - the sports provision has been extremely minimal. He played a lot of sport at primary school, but at JCoSS it has been limited to table tennis and cross country! The only football has been for the top players. Luckily he swims at a competitive level, so can do that outside of school.

The music department has been excellent. Lots of opportunities for performances. DS played in the wind band and jazz band, plus in the orchestra for one of the musicals.

Friend's son goes to JCOSS and they are very happy with it.

And after seeing this thread I looked up the boy I mentioned online and he is well into his career now and doing very well - a JCOSS success.

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your views and experiences. I went to the parents meeting today and liked the school a lot, subject to a couple of points below. The messages I heard from the staff were obviously different from those in selective private schools (a lot of talk on attendance/motivation to study/mixed abilities) but that’s totally expected from a non-selective school and I got a feeling that they are trying to help each child to achieve their full potential.

• What inspired me was the message from the head of education that they help gifted children to achieve high results and get into top universities (he mentioned a “scholars program”). Is that true? How effective is such program and what does a child need to demonstrate to get into it?

• I didn’t fully understand the school’s gadget/phone policy. How strict is it? I’d prefer there were no phones at school.

Unfortunately, the introduction made by the new head was the most disappointing part of the evening. I appreciate that car parking, school attendance and fund raising are important but are these the first messages you want to convey to the new JCOSS parents? I’ve heard that the previous head was a key selling point for the school and was a bit upset with today’s presentation of the new head. Sincerely hope that it’s a newcomer’s syndrome and she will find her style over time.

Any further thoughts are absolutely welcome as we are starting to look for a home in the area and making our final choice.

You are quite right. The school does everything they can to help each child achieve their full potential. DS has been part of the Scholars Programme since Y7 and he's taken part in various science and maths events. I think they identify the students in the top couple of sets for a subject and invite them to join the programme. They run different sessions, either during lunch breaks or as a drop down from lessons. I recall one time they had Marine Engineers visit from the Navy and they spent the day learning about designing and building super yachts! DS really enjoyed the Science sessions and it gave him careers ideas.

However, the teachers are also very good at identifying those who maybe struggling or not fulfilling their potential and very quickly put interventions in place, particularly in the GCSE years.

The music department also discovered he played an instrument outside of school and encouraged him to take part in various music ensembles. This gave him so much confidence, particularly in the younger years.

DS is at the start of the UCAS process. Apparently those who are aiming for Oxbridge take part in a timetabled programme during Y12 as do those aiming for Vet or Med school. Yesterday there was a Higher Education Day where the students had sessions about Student Finance, UCAS application process and talks from different universities. There appears to be a lot of support for post Y13.

We haven't really had any experience of the new head other than the end of term newsletter.

And my twins' school (fee paying day private school London) had 100% failure rate for Oxbridge their year (my twins didn't try) so just because it is private does not always mean it does better than state schools.
I can understand how the issues mentioned at the talk feel a bit mixed ability state schoolish rather than fee paying school parents are consumers kind of vibe but that is inevitable and probably a small price to pay for not paying any fees at all. So as long as children who are bright are able to get into good universities etc then go for it.

Hi @Buru I was just reading through this thread as my DS is at a private school but with VAT on fees, I'm considering state school options for secondary school (still a bit of time away) and JCOSS would likely be our first choice. I wondered what you decided on between JCOSS and your private school option?

I thought I would update my views on JCoSS now that DS has left. During Y12/13, DS was extremely unwell and was having various hospital tests. He ended missing time at school. He spoke to his form tutor to ask for support and she was not remotely interested. I emailed the Head of Year and Head of 6th Form to explain how stressed and anxious he was becoming. They promised to put in support and he had one 5 minute meeting and no further support. the only time the HoY phoned me was on results day to ask if he needed any support!

By the time the students reach the 6th Form, the school do not wish to communicate with the parents at all. However, despite telling the students they are adults and need to be more independent, they still treat them like children. For example, if they miss JE, they are given a 1 hour afterschool detention!!

The school was fantastic in the lower years under the leadership of Patrick Moriarty. Once he left and the new headteacher started, the changes quickly became apparent and they were definitely not for the better. They only care about results and those heading for Oxbridge and Russell Group. We were extremely concerned about DS going to university as he was so unhappy at school, but now that he has started, the change in him now that he is away from that place is remarkable. He is happy once again

Hi @Buru !

Firstly, congratulations to your daughter and to your family on her 11 Plus success.

We went through something similar with our own daughter, as did the families of her peers. Several of these,though not all, families also had the option of one or both of two 'top' North London state academically selective schools; I'm sure you know which ones I mean.

Some families chose private and, looking back, are happy. Some chose the state non-selective route and are happy, too. Some chose state - selective or non-selective - up to Year 11 followed by private for Sixth Form, controlling their financial budget that way; they are happy, too, all things considered. One family chose private followed by state selective Sixth Form; they are also happy. (So it's worth remembering the 16 Plus is available into most schools.)

So much depends on how strong and self- motivated the young learner is. The school can help, of course, but the student and her family are,overall, much more important. Parents who speak English, sometimes in full, grammatical sentences, parents who read non-fiction and fiction books, parents who patiently help with food chemistry homework at the kitchen table or who enthuse about English poetry - this really, really helps with any school and is very, very hard to do consistently over seven years, especially with, say, three kids.

What money and a private school do is buy you access to top facilities, a social and professional network, a short cut to internships and a better statistical chance of a top, top university faculty. Quite possibly, a good private school turns a Nottingham University place into an LSE place or an LSE place into a place at Cambridge, if you also do enough of everything else in the family.

Hi @Girlsmum86. We have gone for a top independent school in the end with my eldest daughter. It was a difficult decision, but we realized that we could not predict the future and although it may be easier to get into Oxbridge from a state school these days, there must be a reason why this particular independent school maintains its place in the top league over the years. So far, we are happy with our choice, and the tough competition but a generally nurturing environment seems to do good to our DD. I recognize though that we might have been equally happy at JCoSS, as she is not using half the opportunities their school offers (such as clubs, sports etc).

I was a bit underwhelmed by the new head of JCoSS TBH at the only parent meeting I went to. I was not sure how it would affect the school going forward. From the post above it looks like parents have some reservations about the new head now.

Interestingly, I am preparing my second DC for a secondary school and now slightly leaning towards JFS over JCoSS. It looks like its results are slightly better and it’s also closer to where we now live. But we have not set on anything yet and keep all options open, so I may be back here for advice when the time comes.

Thank you @Dido2010 , fully agree with your analysis, and a lot goes to particular circumstances of each family, including the time that parents can spend with their children to broaden their perspective.