Secondary education appeal coming up

[Cellardoor93]

Any advice would be much appreciated. I can't think straight with all this going on. I'm finding it really difficult which I'm sure alot are. I'm going to put everything down. If anyone could help me pick points with schools statement that would be so helpful. I have a few things but struggling. This school is not out catchment school although is local we do not meet overadmission criteria.
We will call my child V for the purpose of this

For background information we applied for a school at our old address. Only 1 choice yes risky but I knew whatever school he was allocated over there wouldn't be a possiblity with the looming move by the council housing register. On offer day we weren't allocated preference school and given another local to old address. I then updated preferences to a local school to new address. Recieved letter telling us he did not get in as full and now all local schools to our new address full

Reasons my child needs to attend this school-

1. He would easily be able to travel to appeal school on a school bus if he was to go to allocated school from home he would be on 2 public buses and a walk around the town centre and certain area alone with no peers travelling with him. Most children would struggle with this length of journey, given V sensory processing disorder this is a impossility due to his naivety and I feel he could be placed in extreme danger due to no stranger awareness or boundaries.

2. The style of teaching at  appeal school mimicks his iep the classes are of mixed ability meaning he wouldn't feel at a disadvantage because of his special educational needs , and the individualised style of teaching would help him thrive as did his iep and one to one classes. He has made such progress with his iep from where he was it clearly works for him and I don't want him to get left behind. 


3. The style of attainment and marking, when we looked round they showed how they mark each work as it's done, giving guidance and the chance for V to respond this would provide encouragement to him and make him feel heard.

4.The pastoral care at appeal school in his own words made him feel safe, there is someone always in pastoral office and they have workshops for anxiety, anger and mindfulness which would benefit V aswell as an In house counselling team. 

1. Year 7 have their own time to eat and their own toilets which would ease his transition. The deputy head told V herself that he could get a pass for the library to eat in there if he was overwhelmed. The fact that the deputy head took the time to offer this information to V reassured him that his feelings are valid.

.appeal school provide solo forms for children attending outside the priority admissions area so that they are in a group together so they are along side pupils who have the same worries and concerns, V has had to deal with this twice this year with moving school once already. So be encouraged by this additional input something allocated do no have available, V would be the pupil living furthest away from the school I'm sure, therefore this would be a significant disadvantage.

1. V would create friends from his local area helping to build his already knocked resilience and wellbeing. V already has a friend attending Appeal school. He found moving from his primary school 3 months ago significantly difficult.

1. V wants to study German and take it at gsce which is something appeal school offers from year 7 which allocated don't offer. V was able to observe a German class on our tour and he expressed great interest and excitement to be able to study that subject. I feel this fact alone that V is showing an intrest beyond his current curriculum is a significant thing for him as it stepping out of his comfort zone and has come from him hiself rather than us as parents trying to engage him. That one factor that has sparked an enthusiasm in him to learn speaks volumes. It would also enable him to communicate better with his family in Vienna and go beyond the basics.

1. Due to V sensory processing disorder he is at more risk of developing mental health issues I feel V attending a school so far away from his peers and community will prevent him from forming important relationships that could prevent him from speaking out. It is important that V feels safe and the journey to allocated school from home is causing him high levels of anxiety and this does not promote positive mental health.

10. If he was to have arranged school transport he wouldn't be able to take part in after school activities something which he enjoys as he thoroughly enjoyed doing gardening club at school as the arranged transport would only pick up and collect at school hours ( I have checked the terms and conditions) at preferred he would be with his peers so would be able to travel with them.

11. The process of how social housing works has put V at an unfair disadvantage to his peers we were rehoused by council because of V medical needs we could not plan where or when we would be moving. I bid on the house on 16th November and the deadline for preference change was the 30th. I called and emailed the council for an answer and they didn't offer me the house until 8th Dec. I feel this is completely unfair on V. I know if we had been in this property before the deadline we would have been offered a local school.

12. Appeal school have a retro gaming club that V is really looking forward to attending, as he finds gaming therapeutic.

This is a list of the things V faces with his sensory processing disorder both inside and outside of school

• certain sounds, sights, smells, textures can create a sensory overload

• both sensory avoids and seeks, his reactions and behaviour change depending on the environment he's in

• often squirms and fidgets

• invades other people's personal space

• often gets distracted or feels anxious

• is clumsy and uncoordinated ( primary did try and help with this with balance workshops for him)

• if he is feeling relaxed and happy and is in an environment where they feel comfortable, he thrives but if he's stressed and anxious his symptoms flare up and because of his diagnosis his education is already compromised.

• reacts to loud noises with fright

-easily distracted by background noise

• has a limited diet (is under dietician)

• little spacial awareness

• uses too much pressure when writing and struggles with hand writing and presentation

• tenancy for meltdown

He is constantly in fight of flight mode everyday he battles feeling overwhelmed and, anxious .

Time is closing in and its been a nightmare to say the least to get help with supporting letters, because we moved doctors his new doctor feels she doesn't know him enough but has written a letter of support its not the best. His old doctor can't help as he's not a registered patient anymore.
His new primary school have been little help as again they dont know him and in the 3 months he's been there the head and his form tutor have left. I have a letter of support from his old head who had known him from nursery, and his year 6 tutor post stating in their professional option they believe appeal school is better for him and why. The organisation that did his original asd assessment won't help as his diagnosis was over 6 years ago and said I had to contact our areas sensory occupational therapist (also told me he would have been referred if diagnosed now but was no service back then! Great) I contacted the service and was told the waiting list is significant and school would gave to refer him. I spoke to his teacher and sent numerous emails about it and now she's left and the head so yeah I'm getting no where. My poor son 😥😥😥
So the evidence we've managed to get is

• letter from original gp stating original diagnosis and how it affects him and us as a family. This isn't specific to school but the house move
• proof of banding and when we moved
• letter of support from the councils medical officer

-letter of support from new gp

• original diagnosis and asd report
• some of his past ieps showing progress
• background history from his original asd report stating he has a genetic link on both sides for anxiety and depression and is vulnerable to this

-letter from previous headteacher stating why in her opinion he needs appeal school

• letter of appeal from V year 6 teacher at previous school

I think that's it. I've tried believe me I've tried it's been so hard too being Easter holidays everyone seems to be away. I've cried many tears over this I feel like no one wants to help sometimes 😥😥😭

All the local schools are full even the suggested one they wrote about in the appeals pack
I will post the schools side too

The only thing I want to ask the PO is how update is the information from the head as he's mentioned about the dining hall being used 2.7 times but has failed to mention that year 11 have their own dining hall and they had a new 17m x 17m outdoor dining hall built within the last few years.

Thankyou sorry I know its long. It feels good to get it off my chest 😅😅

What you also need to bear in mind is the strength of the schools case will vary. Sometimes a weak appeal will win because the school's case is weaker; sometimes what appears to be a strong case will lose, because the school's case is very strong. So it's hard to generalise.

However, there is certainly a small proportion of appeals which, realistically, are very unlikely to ever succeed unless the school were to roll over at Stage 1 and accept all appeals! (possible but very rare....)

Thank you this has given me confidence in what I'm fighting for and I don't feel stupid anymore. I will definitely ask that question! I did message the school some questions and this is what I got -
I have answered the questions which we hold the information on below.

. From past data how many yr7 appeals have been successful for appeal school?

This data will be held by LEA, we do not keep a record of successful appeals for places into Yr7 only for in year admissions (ICAF's)

. What is your current acceptance rate for the 282 places you have offered?
Not yet known - none have been refused/declined at this stage.

. When was the current net capacity set for appeal school?

2022-23 Capacity is 1320
2023-24 Capacity is 1338

. How many accidents have occurred in the last 3 years directly attributed to overcrowding?

It is difficult to specifically say if an accident has occurred due to specific overcrowding as other factors always play a part in accidents.

. What date was the statement by the headteacher drafted up?
March 2023

. Your information states that you have let an additional 18 students in than the PAN 264. It then states you admitted a further 3 students? Is this in addition to the 18?

We have let an additional 18 in total

Is there any room for further questioning with the answers they have given. The fact they can't tell me there's been an accident / the PAN is still way under the upper range limit?

Am I right in thinking my particularl schools case is quite weak?

Argh It's next week, I'm starting to freak out 😭😭😅

sorry for adding onto all the other questions I have asked, but when presenting my case would you start with a strong point, followed by a few weaker and ending on another strong, or start weak and end on strong ? Hope I'm making sense.

I've just come back from the part 1 of the appeal. They were very taken aback by me asking about the range in the capacity but couldn't answer me. They told us they are having 10 classes this year instead of 9. Split between 282 so that's 28.2 per class. We really thought they would uphold it as the school basically admitted they had the room just not in so much words but the panel found it to be full. I just hope as their case was quite weak it will go in our favour for this next part 😭

It is unusual for an appeal panel to uphold at stage 1. However weak the school's case, they will almost invariably conclude there is some prejudice to the school from having to admit another pupil, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

@Cellardoor93 how many other appeals were there? Did anyone else ask any questions?

Given part 1 and 2 were separate I'm assuming there were multiple appeals. As prh observes, it would be very rare for a panel to accept at stage one there is no prejudice to admitting all the appellants (or even 1) unless the school deliberately says "there would no prejudice". Almost by definition, there will be some prejudice in admitting another pupil into a school full to PAN.

Remember at this point the panel are not comparing your case to the schools - at stage one, it is all about the school proving there would be some prejudice to admitting another pupil, regardless of who that is. It may well be the case that when they do hear your case, they decide the prejudice to your child of not attending is greater than the prejudice to the school in taking another pupil.

There are 17 other appeals and there were lots of questions they said they had never had so many. Today is the big day I am so very nervous I really hope the panel are kind. Thanks so much for everyone's help. I went over what I was going to say last night and wrote down examples and evidence for everything I'm saying to back it up. I just hope it's enough. One can only try. Thanks again

Good luck OP!

@Cellardoor93, just read your thread and wanted to offer a 'good luck'.

I don't have experience of school appeals but I have extensive professional experience of the type of environment you'll be in today. Take your time and if you need a minute to look through papers or think about an answer just say that.

Good luck.

Thank you for your messages. All done! That was the scariest thing I have ever done. I thought they would ask alot more questions than they did but it felt like the questions they did ask tried to pull extra bits into my case to strengthen it. They asked me things like if he attends appeals school and gets a migraine how would you pick him up? I said grandad in the local area walk for him until I can get him. would Now the dreaded wait. I'll keep you updated. Asked about plan b. Asked about that I'd stated he struggles with h andwriting but the letter he wrote was readable. I stated that yes it is, but he has his struggles and his teacher 2 weeks ago pulled me to tell me he wasn't meeting targets in hand wiring and presentation and he puts capitals in the middle of words and uses joined up sometimes and not others. Asked why we moved what sypmtopns physical and sensory. Asked if we'd looked around other local schools said yes and where and what happened

Asked is there anyway he could go other local school and get used to it. Told he is refusing to go as he is scared of being poorly, all his peers going and he still doesn't want to go. Went into detail about what it did to him and why it would be detrimental going there

All in all I feel it went well and I couldn't do anymore than I did. 😊

@PatriciaHolm @prh47bridge sorry to tag but do you know what happens after the appeals have been heard and if the council can do checks etc? I was just wondering as my appeal was yesteday and today my sons school sendco called to discuss him and what plans we can put in place as she said ' so his high school have a file on it all ready to help him' which is weird as he doesn't currently have an allocation and she knew this from my email. she also referred him for OT and has sent me help for getting an adhd diagnosis too. It could be complete coincidence but the timing is so weird as id emailed loads weeks ago and heard nothing and the day after my appeal she calls. Its fab for my son as he isn't going to slip under the net but yeah I just find it strange considering the council were asking yesteday and I said my son is being let down because of the move and his new school don't know him and aren't getting back to me. Can they contact relevant people after my appeal?

After the appeals have all been heard, the appeal panel discuss them all and make their decisions. The clerk is the only other person allowed to be present. I can't say what your council is doing but they definitely cannot present additional evidence to the appeal panel after the hearing is over.

Just to add, there is, of course, nothing to stop them talking to the allocated school about putting in place appropriate provision for your son, but they can't go back to the appeal panel and tell them what they've done.

I read your question @Cellardoor93 as being about whether the council/clerk/panel might have contacted the school after the appeal to jog them to help you?

The panel definitely won't, absolutely not. The clerk, IME, might give an appellant some quiet advice afterwards if there is a matter of process they feel they might need help on - I have known clerks direct appellants to information about applying under a medical needs category before, for example. But they won't have contacted the school.

As for the LA, who knows. It's possible that they might, if they feel that would help, but it would have nothing to do with the appeal.

@Cellardoor93 did you give them a Plan B answer?? We don’t have a Plan B as my daughter won’t go to the allocated school so my Plan B would be to take her out of education (which isn’t my plan but I feel I would have no other choice!) 😖

I know this thread is super old but what was the outcome @Cellardoor93 ?

I hope OP doesn’t mind me posting this, but they started another thread last year: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4799926-omg-i-cant-believe-it-we-won-our-appeal?callback=in&code=YTBIODLMODUTYTA0NI0ZNJI1LTLHYMITNDE3YTUWYME4MJE0&state=d4c0617d19d04f49ada41e2865cee1da

If you’re reading this OP I hope your DS has settled in well.

Oh wow, thanks for sharing! What great news, I’ll read the thread now .