If in London and you got a place at your preferred school via the waiting list, how far down were you and how long did you have to wait for your place?

[CloudsOverHead]

We're 40+ on the waiting list for our preferred school (250 intake) but before any second round offers were made. I was told by the admissions people that there was a lot of movement to come (in London so always lots moving in/out/going private) but don't know whether to hold hopes high or assume it's never going to happen.

In previous years, I know people who were in the 60s on the list (same school) who got their place in early April but others who only moved from 50ish to 30ish before giving up in August.

Really interested to hear other experiences please!

We have moved from late 40’s at the beginning of April to late 20’s this week.
Not sure if that’s good or bad!! Hopeful or not!!
Trying to be optimistic, that it’s still 4 months and things can change xx

Movement of 20 seems great to me. It’s low single digits in the school I want because they over offered massively :(

I saw my friend today. She works in a school office in the borough of Wandsworth. She said she was appalled to find out that a lot (Ie: majority) of parents were holding offers for private and state, with no intention of taking the state places. Apparently the primary school have asked parents about their chosen school, and the state secondary schools have also sent through a list of children who have places to arrange meetings etc. She’s had to have conversations to persuade them to give up their state place if they have no intention of going. There is a lot of “just in case” responses.

That would certainly explain why it’s moving a lot slower than usual this year. But surely they’ve paid for a term so they’ve made their decision and they know they have to give up the state place eventually? What will be the trigger for giving up the place?

Exactly, they are locked into the fees! I can see some exceptions to people holding both places, but not the majority who have a lot of money/secure jobs. We were discussing the point that maybe as one or two were holding, it made it more acceptable for the others to also hold their state places. She was explaining to them that they will be depriving another child of the induction days etc. Hopefully they will see sense the closer it gets to these deadlines. Hopefully the secondary schools will be fed back that they are also holding private places as the school will then be on their case as they need their numbers.

Unfortunately, what usually happens is that they just fail to turn up on the first day of term. You then spend the next fortnight trying to get a response from them (fortunately, most do actually get back to you and say 'Oh, they're going to x Private School'), then waiting for the first day of term at that private school, getting confirmation from that school that they've turned up, then offrolling them on that day - they stay on the register by law until that day - and then you chuck away the ID passes, get finance to close the payment account, get IT to remove the Google Classroom and network access, get each department to remove access to online resources that they manage, raise a digital transfer file and upload it to the government data transfer site with the appropriate code, complete a migration report and submit that to the LA, refresh your waiting list, offer the place(s) to whoever is top, wait for them to respond, chase them if they don't respond, chase them again, ask the LA to separately contact them and chase when they don't respond, then remove them if they do respond and say no thank you, sort out a meeting for them to come in and decide whether they want the place after all, manually add them to the register, arrange for the payment account, online accounts, added to classes and timetables, send details of uniform, timings, etc, notify reception to expect them, package up the hard files sent by the primary and post them to the private school, chasing for acknowledgement, arrange for the DSL to transfer any Safeguarding hard files, arrange for the SENDCO to transfer any SEND information....

...and then you repeat all this for the other nine kids that haven't turned up.

Except where you can't get a response from the parents or they say they've decided to home educate. You then have to complete a five page referral form for the local authority detailing every attempt to contact, submit that after two weeks of trying, communicating with the previous school if they've included details of them on the original application (not all do), then they do as much as they can to trace them and eventually respond sometime between mid October and Christmas (as they have hundreds of CME cases, along with children genuinely at risk of something awful having happened in all year groups) and tell you if it's a case where you can remove them from the register or if 'it's an attendance issue', which means it's your problem.

-------

Seriously, private sector parents, just decline the state offer now. The amount of work it causes, the cost in time and physical resources and, most importantly, the sheer noise it creates directly affecting the urgent safeguarding that has to go on for children at genuine risk is ridiculous.

Oh lord! That is so much work. I knew it was a lot but nowhere near as much as the above. Some
people are so selfish 😔.

The only positive for waiting parents is that a lot will stick with the school they’ve been given once term has started so it means those further down the list who are willing to move stand more of a chance of being offered. There surely has to be a better way or some kind of penalty if you start the term with both a private and state place without good reason.

@NeverDropYourMooncup that's so awful!!! Why don't people realise the impact of their decisions!

It's not like they won't be getting lots of communication from their state school place so not just an honest mistake. When my older child went to secondary we got tonnes of emails/letters from June through to Sept. You certainly know you are registered at the school!!!

I suppose it's a combination of not needing to know the intricacies of admissions and safeguarding and not realising just how complex and timeconsuming all of this is in relation to their being 'just one child, how bad can it be?' with, well - not actually caring in any case.

After all, what they see is an app and possibly a supplementary form, which doesn't give any indication that this means work for

IT
Data
Admissions
An entire Committee of Governors
Governance
Sometimes legal teams
Safeguarding
Admin
SEND
Head of Year
Headteacher
Deputy Headteacher
Form Tutors
TAs
Reception
Finance
The Diocese if a church school
Academy Board
Academy Members
Academy Governance
Academy Finance
Academy Data
Academy C suite
Academy Admin
Primary teaching
Primary head
Primary deputyhead
Primary Finance
Primary admin/reception
Primary IT and Data
Primary Safeguarding
Primary SEND
Primary TAs
LA IT
LA Data
LA Admissions
LA strategy
Area IT
Area Data
LA procurement
LA Safeguarding
LA SEND
LA CME
LA SS
LA Legal
LA EHE Team
LA Governance
LA Education Dept
LA Transport and safety
If out of area, the other LA's counterparts
Appeals clerk, Presenting Officers, volunteer panel members
Assorted transport companies and their drivers, finance, admin, strategy, logistics and business

Hundreds of people work flat out from September - Easter to get it to the point of 'you complete your application online by 31st October and submit a supplementary form for this school' each year. And the work still isn't completed having started at least two and a half years previously when the actual Admissions Policy for 23-24 was determined.

Oh wow that is one very long list!!

It's just so frustrating all round. For the schools and for the waiting list people.

Not all kids are comfortable with a September switch when they're already super nervous about secondary. Those kids might have got a place and a more comfortable start if fewer people did this😞

I caved and contacted the council. Heard back today - have moved a few places down the list. Slow progress but at least a bit of progress.

Other than the induction days, will anything else prompt movement? Do schools ramp up communication to force people’s hands at all?

Anyone had any progress?

We moved only 2 places over about 3 weeks 😟

The main appeals season hasn't quite ended yet (there's a time limit for holding them dependent upon the last day for making an appeal from the first round), and once somebody has been successful at an appeal (or more than one, that's possible, too) they need to decide to accept, actually accept the place and for the LA and schools to enact the change. Oh, and actually respond to waiting list offers side eyes five families on the list who aren't responding to their offers.

From memory, changes pick up again towards the latter half of June when even the latest appeals have been heard and people confirm house purchases, etc. I'm hoping that'll happen again, as I could do with the lull lasting a little bit longer to get the million and one other things I do up to date 😁

@CloudsOverHead I was thinking of this thread today.
I called admissions this morning as we received all paperwork for our offered school and felt flat. Been around 2 weeks since I last called and we have not moved one place. Still in mid 20’s 🤯 x

I’ve been in contact with the council as trying to get some info on rough numbers that are usually offered. We’ve moved 5 places in the last 3 weeks and now into the teens on the waiting list. I’m glad it’s moved but it’s still quite slow. Was really hoping for some more movement but maybe it’s better that the offers come later when people are more likely to say no if offered. Waiting is so hard

That’s good info, thanks. I don’t really know how it works with appeals so apologies if I’m asking something that’s already been answered… so does the school hold back some places for appeals? I presumed they didn’t and if they had to offer an appeal place, they would then go over PAN and then let it fall back naturally before re offering again should a place come up?

Not sure how helpful this is as it was based on a London primary school but our process was:

• offered 4th choice
• ranked 5 on waiting list for choice 1 and in 30s for 2 and 3
• last week of term in July got a call back from choice 1 and 3 offering a place
• 1st week September got a call from choice 2 offering a spot

So don't give up - it seems the most movement comes in July or September. I'm expecting a similar process when we apply for secondary next year!

You're absolutely right and that is exactly how things go. Schools aren't allowed to hold places for appeals, as that's prejudicial to the children on the waiting list and could then be grounds for them to appeal.

It's a fine balancing act and any year that you see a just manageable number of children arrive in September (whether that's PAN or PAN+EHCP+Appeals) feels like a triumph.

@Fruits81 that's how I felt too. I don't think we'll get in to our no 1 anymore. But means I'm thinking of all the positives of no 2 and may just manage to talk myself into being happy.

Thanks for the inside info @NeverDropYourMooncup - so helpful to understand the behind the scenes.

My instinct was to try and not call/think about it until end of June now but clearly I will cave and call again next week

Glad to find I'm not alone. Waiting sucks. We are in high 20s on WL for Tiffin GS. Had thought a place would come through by Sept, going by previous data. But... it seems vanishingly unlikely. The WL just isn't moving. Offers have stalled around #10.
Instead we are accepting the second choice. And I know I'll be secretly hanging on until Sept. It's a bummer. I wish it had been a straight-up rejection rather than all this maybe-maybe...

I think this might have been before Kingsdale became absolutely massive, but my friend's son was number 4 on the waiting list at the end of term Year 6. He didn't get an offer in Year 7. He got an offer in the summer holidays between Year 7 and 8 and left the school he had been in for a year to take up his place.

With my two children, I took them off the waiting lists and sent them to their allocated schools (both 3rd choice). They got AAA and A*AB at A levels and we were all happy with that.

Fingers crossed for you. You never know, the closer it gets the more the list might skip through more people, especially if they are locked into private fees. Would you consider moving once term starts if offered?

I honestly have no idea. However , I don't even think it will happen in the Autumn term - WL movement seems so far behind previous years.
I guess it's true that Indy parents don't have incentive to remove themselves from WL.

Fingers crossed for you. I know the tiffin boys seems to have gone to around 26 for the last 3 years. They were up to #17 a few weeks ago... So fingers crossed something comes up with the girls.

Morning, does anyone happen to know the process if kids fail to show for their transition day? I’m hoping that might prompt some movement? Does the school/council check they still want their place or is it just left?